I couldnt agree more. But in the end, its all business, and theres nothing that can be done about it. Unfortunately, the only way to stop their prices from being so competitive is to, well, stop buying from them and support the other vendors we know and love. But will that really happen in the end?

 

im not afraid to say anything... but if AMS can start a heap and get a great vendor kicked off, im just a measly member, id get banned for sure. I dont think it is right, but in the past i have seen TTP get a little mad, a PM to a moderator and wouldnt you know, account disabled to a guy he and i were arguing with
been covered
this is correct also which is why AMS should have sat there and carried on every day business as they have been, people respect them and buy parts from them because of their name even if the prices are higher. I dont think Yoparts was carrying AMS intercoolers or turbo kits or anything else of theirs... What if we banned somebody like lancershop for all the terrible customer service claims and because AMS was using them to corner the market on their turbo kits ? i know it doesnt make sense, but to me, neither does kicking out a great vendor who had amazing customer service.
what fits us as a whole is being able to afford to make our evos the way we want them to be. regardless of where the money goes... in the end, we are coming to see ams, buschur, ttp for tuning and to pick up the parts that we know work on these cars and spend the leftover cash on things from yoparts because they are cheaper there.

oh, and you contradicted yourself a bit.... first was vendors that live and breathe evos will be pushed out, but then AMS wouldnt lose any business ? .... id have to go with mellon's school of thought on this one. Those companies that provide services will be just fine, that provide tuning that provide their own parts. Businesses that strive off of selling parts and have nothing to do with the community other then that will lower prices or fall. So what if they struggle, join the rest of the world. You guys arent here to get rich off of this community. At least, not in our eyes, you are here to provide services... and Tom was doing that. They were following every rule of the community, and doing amazing things for its members. Which is more than i can say for a lot of vendors i have dealt with. AMS excluded on that one.

 

i feel AMS and all the other shops like them are over priced and out of control to begin with. i do my shopping where the price is right on the part i want. im not gonna get ripped off because a big vendor has overhead they need to maintain. thats not my fault. if i need a part that my local guys i use dont carry and ams and the other shops do carry it then i will go where i need to go to get that part. but i will still shop around with them vendors and pick to best price anyway.

 

Wow.. Just wow.. I have alot of thinking to do..

I have alot of respect for many of the shops and vendors here, and I pretty much ignored this particular vendor because of the "too good to be true" wholesale pricing claims.

But now I wonder how I would be treated if/when I decided to market myself and my product designs or services.

BTW Wholesale clubs are not a new idea.. Their concept is to make their money on the recurring subscriptions.. My inlaws are members of a club for home/construction supplies. And I've been members of clubs like that over the years for computer related stuff. Every time there is someone who does this and breaks into a new market, there is an outcry. Ultimately the market stabilizes itself as shops and vendors still offer things that wholesale clubs cannot. But it also allows the end-user to buy the very common and overpriced parts that everyone has for a much lower price. Its not affecting specialty parts, labor, warranty, just the parts that everyone has.

Honestly, this was a business model I had been tossing around in my head the past year or so when I saw the setup my in-laws were participating in.

Just keep in mind, you get what you pay for.. if you buy wholesale, you have to provide all of the service and support for yourself, just as if a vendor was buying wholesale parts for resale. This means doing all of your own research and getting all of your own fitment questions or concerns yourself. That is the trade off.

What is disturbing is the discussion that went on behind the scenes, I do understand the points and concerns, however the discussion itself clearly implied there was a level of collusion going on that makes me question whether or not pricing on anything is fair.

 

This thread will reach an epic level.....No different than Walmart/Costco/etc versus Small Business. With me, when it comes to major installs/purchases I would trust a shop since they know the in and outs of my car as well as their products. Now with anything else, I shop around for the best prices on the product I am looking for.

What some of these vendors need to understand is that they still control the market on tuning and in most cases installations. If quality work and great customer service is displayed, they have nothing to worry about. They also need to realize that rarely does a customer drop a ton of money on a shop without getting a feel for it, through small purchases/installations.

 

This is really too bad to hear. However you have to look at this board as a business. It takes money to maintain the servers ad such so a threat to walk out by several sponsors would be a powerful thing. Not that I am condoning this.

 

But in that thread, CharlesJ said there was a waiting list for vendors, therefore easily replaced by another one. I understand there is a cost associated to running this site, but if you allow vendors to remove someone because of competition, who is it really benefiting? Like some of the comments in that thread, "Where do we draw the line?"

 

I have to agree with Jack

 

How many good TV shows have been cancelled because of this sort of behavior.. Or some other magazine article, concept, product, because some lobby group convinced advertisers to put pressure on the media. This sort of thing happens all the time.

I certainly understand the problem, but this particular issue has me feeling strongly on both sides of the fence..

For one, I prefer to deal with shops that know their stuff, and design and sell their own parts, and prefer to have contact with them.

the other side, I like getting good deals on occasion, $700-$1000 for an exhaust system, or intercooler pipes is just insane.. The biggest gripe for me is pricing on aftermarket wheels..

 

Like the Moderators said, there is a waiting list to become a vendor on this site. We may lose some of the smaller vendors, but not vendors like AMS, BR, ETS, Gruppe-s, etc. This site does make money, and have a long list of vendors begging to join up. This site will not be headed down to it's own demise. Trust me.

And like Dafroe stated, I wouldn't purchase turbo kits, exhaust, etc from yo parts. Just parts like clutches, gauges, etc but still have the big companies install them. Anyways, this sounds like a load of crap and have held my comment all the way from yesterday just waiting for a MODERATOR to comment. Still no comment.

Oh well, it's all about money in the end. EVerything in the world is.

Jason

 

What is price fixing?

http://business-law.freeadvice.com/t...ice_fixing.htm

 

Well I guess I should be replying in this thread. I have to admit some of these responses are shocking. Alot of users on this site have dealt with AMS direct and me in particular. To make the assumptions that some of you are.... I just don't see how you can.

I have worked for AMS going on 6 years now. We have weathered many storms in this business. From starting out as a no name in this industry to really making our mark on what was considering the greatest tuner community ever. I came from a few great communities as well (VW and LS1) but nothing was as tight knit as it was here.

You guys make it sound like we are making money hand over fist here. I want to ask the people that have been to AMS or know the employee's personally a question. does it look like we make alot of money? I am the sales manager here and although I am not begging in a street. I have challenges to make ends meet every week. I live in an apartment with two other people and I shop at the grocery store with coupons like most blue collar guys. And don't think that the owners are any better. Both the president and Vice president of AMS live VERY modestly. When the company does make a little bit of money we put it into engineering new products for YOU GUYS!

We don't make alot of money on parts resold....WE JUST DON'T DO IT. I have $2000.00 plus parts that I sell that I make $100.00 on!!!!! thats 5% margin.....5 %!!!! now I Have to stock that same part in a building that i Have to pay for, but we are "overpriced" right. I can't compete with internet company prices...I just can't. Our overhead is to high to make less then 10% on a part. We don't compete with these people and although it stinks we have come to terms with that. Our voice was not to be heard because AMS is in trouble. Our voice was put out these for the little shops that NOBODY is listening to. The same little shops that carry AMS product and provide a QUALITY service for their customers.

"AMS is just affraid of some competition." That is not it all. YO parts is not competition to us. Buschur, Turbotrix, ETS, Full-Race....they are competition. What a company like YO parts will do is RUIN all the other smaller business' out there. Those small business' whether you think so or not are the life line of this industry. If any of guys think that these business' can survive on labor alone you are sorely mistaken.

Do you know what happens when the dollar starts not being worth as much.... inflation. what do you think MFG's are going to do if this kind of business takes off? They are going to make there margin no matter what. If it means that they need to raise wholesale pricing to the level of "market Value" then they are going to do it. So while you are getting great deals, slowly but sure those prices are going to rise and rise and rise. The problem is that our market is so small its not going to dictate the rest of the economy. Your dollar is still going to be earned the same, its just going to cost you a hell of a lot more to modify your car. Not to mention what do you think labor rates at these shops are going to rise to when that the ONLY form of income they have?????

It is for THOSE reasons that AMS stood up for the little guys out there. We love our jobs and We Really do LOVE this industry. It's not just about money for us, we WE LOVE WHAT WE DO Not many people out there know what its like to wake up and LOVE going to work. I get to help people make their EVO's fast. I get to hear how they just walked all over some F-body the other day.... all because we there to help them put the right parts on their car. When I think of all the other small shops out there that would be greatly affected by wholesale clubs and how there are guys out there in my shoes that would have to hang that up.... its just depressing.

Wholesale clubs like Costco and what not are different as they sell things and make money on the product. Compare costco prices to grocery stores, We are talking 5%-10% cheaper then retail and you have to buy a membership as well. YO parts is COMPLETELY different. They are making nothing on the part and trying to get it all on memberships. Its a get rich quick scheme and they have you guys baited in pretty well. They don't care what happens to you or your car or this business. Once they have run there course....they will leave. There business model CANNOT survive. The MFG's they represent will simply not allow it. They can however damage this industry.

There are countless vendors on there that Violate Pricing policys and sell stuff dirty cheap through PM. You have never heard us make a stink about them. We know what its like to only have a few dollars to spend on your hobby. But when we see something that can drastically affect the future of this market. Its at that point we are going speak up

AMS was not the first and not the only one speaking up about wholesale clubs. We were just the biggest so we were heard. I for one am DAMN PROUD of what I am helping to protect. While some of you may not be able to see it, this is going to help keep this GREAT hobby around.

To some this post might make sense and you will understand where these vendors are coming from. To others, you simply wont care. Your short term goals will supersede the big picture and you will continue to bash shops like AMS and other that are supporting the removal of wholesale clubs.

In either event we have said our peace. I just hope it made a dent

Eric Gaudi
"Enthusiast"

That is proud to work for a company called "AMS"

 

I think what shocked some people, including my self, is the way you voiced your issues. you basically wanted Yoparts out, and didn't care how or why it was done.

When asked
"Ok..so lets say we simply make a rule and ban wholesale clubs. If yo parts ditched the wholesale club thing and just became a regular vendor that happens to sell at super cheap prices, would that be OK? Or forget yoparts, lets just say and existing vendor or a new vendor decides to sell at those prices. Are you guys going to call for them to be removed in the same way?"

You replied
"It would NOT be ok and they should be removed."

This just showed to me that you were angry and not thinking straight. You just had a gripe about a particular vendor and didnt offer a "REAL" solution. i dont consider that preferred vendor an actual solution.

Times change, i am sure you know this. You can never take what you have for granted and always have to evolve yourself onto something new.
Voicing your opinion like you did in that thread was a good move, but will only work for so long.
This is an already ongoing issue with many evom vendors now, but like Charles said, WERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

 

Poll is up.

 

Eric of AMS,

What people don't like is that the free market isn't being allowed to make the decisions on who survives in the vendor space. The end result is being manipulated, which doesn't sit well with some.

Money is precious to most Evo owners, too. We love modifying our Evos, but not at the expense of necessities (well, other than a few crazies ). Why is it surprising that we'd want to get the most for our buck? Next thing you know, owners who do their own work will be blackballed because they aren't doing enough to support the Evo shop community. But seriously, that 'lowest cost possible' argument obviously shouldn't be used to support chop shops selling parts on here, but I fail to see where YO should be pushed out on the basis other than what ultimately amounts to 'we can't compete with them'.

Most people realize the correlation between price and service - it's black and white when you buy a used part from another EvoM member, and to lesser degrees based on various parts outlets we have to chose from. Those that don't will soon learn, but is it really AMS et al 's place to "save" the Evo owners from learning it on their own? As an earlier post stated, there are purchases that just don't require service, so in that case cost becomes a major factor; perhaps the only factor.

Funny thing is, I'm sporting an AMS intercooler mainly due to price. Potential brands I looked at all had good reps, but the price break (your moving sale) hooked me in. AMS and I benefited from that (I know I did), so why shouldn't some other vendor get to benefit from a fair price advantage, too? You seem to be making some very bold claims in the explanation of the YO business model that don't ring true. Are you claiming YO is breaking pricing rules of the manufacturers? If so, then it would seem the manufacturers would address that, rather than rely on the other vendors from bum rushing YO off the site, wouldn't they? And if that isn't true, then I don't see a valid argument for pushing YO off the site.

PS - I'm not a YO member, but I believe the enthusiast community should be accessible to the widest range of income levels as reasonably possible, and it shouldn't take subsidizing vendors to do it.