View Poll Results: Was YO Parts unjustly expelled from EvoM?
Yes, YO Parts deserves to be here just like any other company.
8
80.00%
No, YO Parts and their business model threatened the integrity of our community.
2
20.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll
YO Parts Fiasco
I think what shocked some people, including my self, is the way you voiced your issues. you basically wanted Yoparts out, and didn't care how or why it was done.
When asked
"Ok..so lets say we simply make a rule and ban wholesale clubs. If yo parts ditched the wholesale club thing and just became a regular vendor that happens to sell at super cheap prices, would that be OK? Or forget yoparts, lets just say and existing vendor or a new vendor decides to sell at those prices. Are you guys going to call for them to be removed in the same way?"
You replied
"It would NOT be ok and they should be removed."
This just showed to me that you were angry and not thinking straight. You just had a gripe about a particular vendor and didnt offer a "REAL" solution. i dont consider that preferred vendor an actual solution.
Times change, i am sure you know this. You can never take what you have for granted and always have to evolve yourself onto something new.
Voicing your opinion like you did in that thread was a good move, but will only work for so long.
This is an already ongoing issue with many evom vendors now, but like Charles said, WERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?
When asked
"Ok..so lets say we simply make a rule and ban wholesale clubs. If yo parts ditched the wholesale club thing and just became a regular vendor that happens to sell at super cheap prices, would that be OK? Or forget yoparts, lets just say and existing vendor or a new vendor decides to sell at those prices. Are you guys going to call for them to be removed in the same way?"
You replied
"It would NOT be ok and they should be removed."
This just showed to me that you were angry and not thinking straight. You just had a gripe about a particular vendor and didnt offer a "REAL" solution. i dont consider that preferred vendor an actual solution.
Times change, i am sure you know this. You can never take what you have for granted and always have to evolve yourself onto something new.
Voicing your opinion like you did in that thread was a good move, but will only work for so long.
This is an already ongoing issue with many evom vendors now, but like Charles said, WERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?
This is why the internet sucks. People misquoting and twisting things to make a point.
Charles asked me if it would of been ok if there were just some internet company undercutting everyone. I said no it wouldnt be because YO parts is not going to change their entire business model for EVO M. As great as that would be its just not going to happen.
Eric
Ok, Ive had some sleep and here we go....... When people say something about Yo Parts not having customer service after the sale? Their are wrong. I have talked to Tom just about everyday since they made their first post announcing this company. Eventhough I havent bought anything from them he has still updated me on parts and or brands that they are carrying that have parts for my car. Im sure that if he doesnt know how something is supposed to fit he can get in touch with the manufacturer and the relay their information to me. But if i order something and I dont wanna put it on I will take it to a shop which will make them money bcuz I am sure everyone knows some shops charge outrageous prices for labor. I know for sure he would help me out to his full ablility if i ordered something.
I will make a quick response here with possibly more to come later.
First off, this was a long an hard decision that started from the first day they were on. So being that they have been on here for some time, it is not something we take lightly. Also, understand that no matter what decision we made, we have one side claiming all we care about is money, which is not the case. We care about the LONG TERM strength of this community and the industry to supports our hobby. What is best for you, the individual in the short term, is not what is best for all of us in the long term. Hell, in the short term, free would be best. I will not go to much into the long term affects right now, but please step back and think about this before jumping to conclusions. Anyways, it was a hard decision with many factors, and although I had considered Tom to be a good guy and was trying to be as helpful as possible. The post on his site not only directly violates our rules (and copyrights), but is a personal insult. Additionally, we have come to find out that he had direct access to parts rather tahn inventory i belie. This is a little unclear. As a result, his posts within the "in stock" sections of our classifieds would not be allowed. Neither of these violations were the reason for them leaving.
Now someone brought up the point of what makes them any different then costco. This is something I personally thought about a bit and there is some very clear differences:
-Costco charges a year membership upfront no exceptions. They were offering it on a monthly basis (very cheap), or even free for a trial. So no one actually had to pay the 100 membershiip
-Costco goods are often in bulk sizes to obtain a better price per unit
-Costco prices are really not that great, especially on non bulk items. You have to buy quite a lot of get back your initial investment. With yo parts, even if you paid the full 100, that could easily be returned in your first purchase.
So this is no where near the model of costco. It just uses the same front.
He asked me if he changed his business model and ditched the membership idea and became a normal vendor with normal discount prices, could he stay (i believe expecting me to say no), and I said yes. This is obviously something he does not care to do.
I will probably write more later, but for now I am going to close this thread so it does into get out of hand over the weekend as that is probably the exact intention of this attack by him on us and our loyal supporting vendors.
First off, this was a long an hard decision that started from the first day they were on. So being that they have been on here for some time, it is not something we take lightly. Also, understand that no matter what decision we made, we have one side claiming all we care about is money, which is not the case. We care about the LONG TERM strength of this community and the industry to supports our hobby. What is best for you, the individual in the short term, is not what is best for all of us in the long term. Hell, in the short term, free would be best. I will not go to much into the long term affects right now, but please step back and think about this before jumping to conclusions. Anyways, it was a hard decision with many factors, and although I had considered Tom to be a good guy and was trying to be as helpful as possible. The post on his site not only directly violates our rules (and copyrights), but is a personal insult. Additionally, we have come to find out that he had direct access to parts rather tahn inventory i belie. This is a little unclear. As a result, his posts within the "in stock" sections of our classifieds would not be allowed. Neither of these violations were the reason for them leaving.
Now someone brought up the point of what makes them any different then costco. This is something I personally thought about a bit and there is some very clear differences:
-Costco charges a year membership upfront no exceptions. They were offering it on a monthly basis (very cheap), or even free for a trial. So no one actually had to pay the 100 membershiip
-Costco goods are often in bulk sizes to obtain a better price per unit
-Costco prices are really not that great, especially on non bulk items. You have to buy quite a lot of get back your initial investment. With yo parts, even if you paid the full 100, that could easily be returned in your first purchase.
So this is no where near the model of costco. It just uses the same front.
He asked me if he changed his business model and ditched the membership idea and became a normal vendor with normal discount prices, could he stay (i believe expecting me to say no), and I said yes. This is obviously something he does not care to do.
I will probably write more later, but for now I am going to close this thread so it does into get out of hand over the weekend as that is probably the exact intention of this attack by him on us and our loyal supporting vendors.
Last edited by CharlesJ; Nov 24, 2007 at 10:12 AM.
Ok, Ive had some sleep and here we go....... When people say something about Yo Parts not having customer service after the sale? Their are wrong. I have talked to Tom just about everyday since they made their first post announcing this company. Eventhough I havent bought anything from them he has still updated me on parts and or brands that they are carrying that have parts for my car. Im sure that if he doesnt know how something is supposed to fit he can get in touch with the manufacturer and the relay their information to me. But if i order something and I dont wanna put it on I will take it to a shop which will make them money bcuz I am sure everyone knows some shops charge outrageous prices for labor. I know for sure he would help me out to his full ablility if i ordered something.
Eric of AMS,
What people don't like is that the free market isn't being allowed to make the decisions on who survives in the vendor space. The end result is being manipulated, which doesn't sit well with some.
Money is precious to most Evo owners, too. We love modifying our Evos, but not at the expense of necessities (well, other than a few crazies
). Why is it surprising that we'd want to get the most for our buck? Next thing you know, owners who do their own work will be blackballed because they aren't doing enough to support the Evo shop community. But seriously, that 'lowest cost possible' argument obviously shouldn't be used to support chop shops selling parts on here, but I fail to see where YO should be pushed out on the basis other than what ultimately amounts to 'we can't compete with them'.
Most people realize the correlation between price and service - it's black and white when you buy a used part from another EvoM member, and to lesser degrees based on various parts outlets we have to chose from. Those that don't will soon learn, but is it really AMS et al 's place to "save" the Evo owners from learning it on their own? As an earlier post stated, there are purchases that just don't require service, so in that case cost becomes a major factor; perhaps the only factor.
Funny thing is, I'm sporting an AMS intercooler mainly due to price. Potential brands I looked at all had good reps, but the price break (your moving sale) hooked me in. AMS and I benefited from that (I know I did), so why shouldn't some other vendor get to benefit from a fair price advantage, too? You seem to be making some very bold claims in the explanation of the YO business model that don't ring true. Are you claiming YO is breaking pricing rules of the manufacturers? If so, then it would seem the manufacturers would address that, rather than rely on the other vendors from bum rushing YO off the site, wouldn't they? And if that isn't true, then I don't see a valid argument for pushing YO off the site.
PS - I'm not a YO member, but I believe the enthusiast community should be accessible to the widest range of income levels as reasonably possible, and it shouldn't take subsidizing vendors to do it.
What people don't like is that the free market isn't being allowed to make the decisions on who survives in the vendor space. The end result is being manipulated, which doesn't sit well with some.
Money is precious to most Evo owners, too. We love modifying our Evos, but not at the expense of necessities (well, other than a few crazies
). Why is it surprising that we'd want to get the most for our buck? Next thing you know, owners who do their own work will be blackballed because they aren't doing enough to support the Evo shop community. But seriously, that 'lowest cost possible' argument obviously shouldn't be used to support chop shops selling parts on here, but I fail to see where YO should be pushed out on the basis other than what ultimately amounts to 'we can't compete with them'.Most people realize the correlation between price and service - it's black and white when you buy a used part from another EvoM member, and to lesser degrees based on various parts outlets we have to chose from. Those that don't will soon learn, but is it really AMS et al 's place to "save" the Evo owners from learning it on their own? As an earlier post stated, there are purchases that just don't require service, so in that case cost becomes a major factor; perhaps the only factor.
Funny thing is, I'm sporting an AMS intercooler mainly due to price. Potential brands I looked at all had good reps, but the price break (your moving sale) hooked me in. AMS and I benefited from that (I know I did), so why shouldn't some other vendor get to benefit from a fair price advantage, too? You seem to be making some very bold claims in the explanation of the YO business model that don't ring true. Are you claiming YO is breaking pricing rules of the manufacturers? If so, then it would seem the manufacturers would address that, rather than rely on the other vendors from bum rushing YO off the site, wouldn't they? And if that isn't true, then I don't see a valid argument for pushing YO off the site.
PS - I'm not a YO member, but I believe the enthusiast community should be accessible to the widest range of income levels as reasonably possible, and it shouldn't take subsidizing vendors to do it.
Thats not competition. I don't care what whay you spin it. THAT IS NOT COMPETITION. small shops use that 10-15% profit on a part to keep their doors open so that they can test products, find out what really works on a car. If they can no longer finance that then you are filled with a market of crap.
The whole thread is AMS, AMS, AMS.... We are not the only one to voice our opinion on this. You can choose to make us the scapegoat all you want but the problem is still there.
I guess its true what they say "Everyone has a price"
Eric
Last edited by AutoMotoSports; Nov 26, 2007 at 02:44 PM.
As promised I have reopened the thread given that this does not get out of hand. And now to outline the problem, events, and decision.
To start, this is not an issue that just popped up and AMS was not the first or last to complain. They are getting an unjust amount of the blame for this simply because they are the ones that started to most recent thread. Starting with the first week yoparts were a vendor, we started receiving multiple complaints from other vendors. The complaints really heated up after they started offering free trial memberships and monthly memberships making it totally unnecessary to have to pay the $100 membership original described to me. This went on for a little while with a good number of the vendors being represented either by posting or contacting us directly. Even more complained indirectly fearing making public complaints (probably for this exact reason). At the time, it was a delicate issue as it is now, so rather than act rashly, we made a decision to monitor and investigate. Over the next 4 months, we watched and monitor complaints. In this time, I explained several times that all the complaints would go away if they choose a less controversial business model which was politely declined. Also in this time, the issue of this vendor has apparently been discussed in many venues other than this site and through many businesses in the industry. This leads into the final complaint. By the time this complaint arose, we were already pretty sure that this was not going to work well out well. After discussing the issue at length amongst ourselves and many other businesses (not just AMS), we made a decision and stuck with it as the right thing to do for the long term strength of the community and the supporting industry. With the removal, we now also have higher levels of potential vendor screening and new rules. I made it quite clear to the vendors that this will not be a precedent to invite pricing witch hunts and vendor removals. Each removal is taken very seriously and it will be us and only us that make the decision. So to those who will say that we did this for financial gain or out of being threatened vendors, I can only say that this is not at all the case as it is in a way a loose loose scenario for us. Finally, we removed yoparts with almost a weeks notice in the most polite manner possible. They then choose to directly violate or rules and copyrights with a slanted attack on us and our vendors which has since been removed by them. As a result of this action, they are no longer welcome here in any fashion including as regular members.
The Decision:
Many of you will feel that this is an unfair decision and only hurts you, the member. Many asked why this could not be a public vote which has a simple answer. As general public, most will not understand nor greatly care about the long term negative aspects in comparison to getting a better price on your next purchase. As such, there is no way we could get a bias free vote. Even if some did consider it, and make a fair decision, the majority would not. Same goes for the vendors. Ask any vendor if they would like another vendor selling cheaper than them to be removed, and they are going to say yes, right thing or not. Therefor, the decision had to be made by us, the site ownership, alone. We straddle both sides being enthusiasts and consumers as well as seeing it from the industry perspective.
So why are they so bad and why are they any different than something like costco or ebay? Well, for the second issue, see my post a few back on what makes them so different from costco. As for ebay, as many of you know and have had experience with, ebay is a crap shoot. There is a certain level of risk involved that many are not willing to deal with. By being an authorized evoM vendor, we are standing behind them, and stepping in to mediate if there is a problem. The real negative side is not what happens today, but over time. If businesses like this are allowed to operate under our roof, it devalues the product. Profit is not a bad thing, just excessive profit. I don't think anyone here with and inside knowledge to this industry can say there is excessive profit available. Profit is necessary to run a business and provide a quality product and service. The business model for yoparts relies on taking a larger market share and volume to make this profit. This then means that other businesses need to either match their business model, or not sell the product eventually. Another argument I have heard is that this one company could not devalue an industry worth of product, but I disagree. We have a relatively small community here and if one company is given away everything for free to be extreme, it wont be long before no other vendor can sell those parts. It starts small and spreads one community at a time. Once devalued, there are a few problems. Many of the businesses that support our community(and make it possible) and offer great services can no longer afford to operate, and the premium/niche market suffers as well. Many of the premium or specialty items have less markup and cost more to make. Faced with competing products that are now cheaper, sales suffer. While most of these specialty items can continue on being different, there is only such much of a prices differential they can stand.
Now many of you have stated that this only affects other "price ******" or online retailers. Yes, this is the group that it affects most, however to say it does not affect a shop just because they also make money off labor is naive. I know because I have personally run a shop before. Yes, labor is more profitable than parts, but for many, that added profit gained by selling parts makes the difference.
So in summation, they would have a negative impact on the mainstream performance parts industry (both manufacturers and resellers), damage existing vendors of which many provide invaluable services, and hurt the long term longevity of this community. While they may not single handedly cause a a catastrophic downfall, it is our independent opinion that their lasting negative effects outweigh the good. We still retain a great wealth of vendors dedicating to serving you and giving you great prices. This site probably has the greatest selection of vendors of any site out there which is something to be thankful for.
Lastly, I apologize for the novel and hope that you, the members will be able to read this and understand the larger picture.
To start, this is not an issue that just popped up and AMS was not the first or last to complain. They are getting an unjust amount of the blame for this simply because they are the ones that started to most recent thread. Starting with the first week yoparts were a vendor, we started receiving multiple complaints from other vendors. The complaints really heated up after they started offering free trial memberships and monthly memberships making it totally unnecessary to have to pay the $100 membership original described to me. This went on for a little while with a good number of the vendors being represented either by posting or contacting us directly. Even more complained indirectly fearing making public complaints (probably for this exact reason). At the time, it was a delicate issue as it is now, so rather than act rashly, we made a decision to monitor and investigate. Over the next 4 months, we watched and monitor complaints. In this time, I explained several times that all the complaints would go away if they choose a less controversial business model which was politely declined. Also in this time, the issue of this vendor has apparently been discussed in many venues other than this site and through many businesses in the industry. This leads into the final complaint. By the time this complaint arose, we were already pretty sure that this was not going to work well out well. After discussing the issue at length amongst ourselves and many other businesses (not just AMS), we made a decision and stuck with it as the right thing to do for the long term strength of the community and the supporting industry. With the removal, we now also have higher levels of potential vendor screening and new rules. I made it quite clear to the vendors that this will not be a precedent to invite pricing witch hunts and vendor removals. Each removal is taken very seriously and it will be us and only us that make the decision. So to those who will say that we did this for financial gain or out of being threatened vendors, I can only say that this is not at all the case as it is in a way a loose loose scenario for us. Finally, we removed yoparts with almost a weeks notice in the most polite manner possible. They then choose to directly violate or rules and copyrights with a slanted attack on us and our vendors which has since been removed by them. As a result of this action, they are no longer welcome here in any fashion including as regular members.
The Decision:
Many of you will feel that this is an unfair decision and only hurts you, the member. Many asked why this could not be a public vote which has a simple answer. As general public, most will not understand nor greatly care about the long term negative aspects in comparison to getting a better price on your next purchase. As such, there is no way we could get a bias free vote. Even if some did consider it, and make a fair decision, the majority would not. Same goes for the vendors. Ask any vendor if they would like another vendor selling cheaper than them to be removed, and they are going to say yes, right thing or not. Therefor, the decision had to be made by us, the site ownership, alone. We straddle both sides being enthusiasts and consumers as well as seeing it from the industry perspective.
So why are they so bad and why are they any different than something like costco or ebay? Well, for the second issue, see my post a few back on what makes them so different from costco. As for ebay, as many of you know and have had experience with, ebay is a crap shoot. There is a certain level of risk involved that many are not willing to deal with. By being an authorized evoM vendor, we are standing behind them, and stepping in to mediate if there is a problem. The real negative side is not what happens today, but over time. If businesses like this are allowed to operate under our roof, it devalues the product. Profit is not a bad thing, just excessive profit. I don't think anyone here with and inside knowledge to this industry can say there is excessive profit available. Profit is necessary to run a business and provide a quality product and service. The business model for yoparts relies on taking a larger market share and volume to make this profit. This then means that other businesses need to either match their business model, or not sell the product eventually. Another argument I have heard is that this one company could not devalue an industry worth of product, but I disagree. We have a relatively small community here and if one company is given away everything for free to be extreme, it wont be long before no other vendor can sell those parts. It starts small and spreads one community at a time. Once devalued, there are a few problems. Many of the businesses that support our community(and make it possible) and offer great services can no longer afford to operate, and the premium/niche market suffers as well. Many of the premium or specialty items have less markup and cost more to make. Faced with competing products that are now cheaper, sales suffer. While most of these specialty items can continue on being different, there is only such much of a prices differential they can stand.
Now many of you have stated that this only affects other "price ******" or online retailers. Yes, this is the group that it affects most, however to say it does not affect a shop just because they also make money off labor is naive. I know because I have personally run a shop before. Yes, labor is more profitable than parts, but for many, that added profit gained by selling parts makes the difference.
So in summation, they would have a negative impact on the mainstream performance parts industry (both manufacturers and resellers), damage existing vendors of which many provide invaluable services, and hurt the long term longevity of this community. While they may not single handedly cause a a catastrophic downfall, it is our independent opinion that their lasting negative effects outweigh the good. We still retain a great wealth of vendors dedicating to serving you and giving you great prices. This site probably has the greatest selection of vendors of any site out there which is something to be thankful for.
Lastly, I apologize for the novel and hope that you, the members will be able to read this and understand the larger picture.
Last edited by CharlesJ; Nov 26, 2007 at 01:14 PM.
LOL they are selling parts at wholesale. I think that might be a MAP policy violation. They get away with it because you must be a member to view such prices. You guys are missing the point. this isn't a "fair price advantage" other shops CANNOT Compete. How can they compete when they are selling product for what these shops buy it for???????
Thats not competition. I don't care what whay you spin it. THAT IS NOT COMPETITION. small shops use that 10-15% profit on a part to keep their doors open so that they can test products, find out what really works on a car. If they can no longer finance that then you are filled with a market of crap.
The whole thread is AMS, AMS, AMS.... We are not the only one to voice our opinion on this. You can choose to make us the scapegoat all you want but the problem is still there.
I guess its true what they say "Everyone has a price"
Eric
Thats not competition. I don't care what whay you spin it. THAT IS NOT COMPETITION. small shops use that 10-15% profit on a part to keep their doors open so that they can test products, find out what really works on a car. If they can no longer finance that then you are filled with a market of crap.
The whole thread is AMS, AMS, AMS.... We are not the only one to voice our opinion on this. You can choose to make us the scapegoat all you want but the problem is still there.
I guess its true what they say "Everyone has a price"
Eric
Evolved Member
iTrader: (37)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,146
Likes: 2
From: Spec-Ops Motorsports, Fayetteville, NC
charles, as i told you thru PM, what you stated here is exactly what i thought was going to be your reasoning behind the decision. As a consumer and member here, i can understand your point. I can understand why the vendors are upset as well.... i guess its the consumer side of me that wonders why things are so expensive when they are being purchased so much cheaper. The answer is simple, industry standard. What is the going rate for this product ? We will either match it or beat it, but keep it close so as to not make it clear how much we really arent paying for an item. I realize there is a manufacturers price that they will not allow an item to be sold below... somehow we just dont ever seem to be anywhere near that on anything. 
Cost for a particular product actually varies greatly not only for product to product, but from vendor to vendor. There are so many things that go into this, that it is not only possible, but probably that items get sold to the public for less that what some places can legitimately buy at wholesale. For those that have never worked in this industry, markups on most items are small percentage wise. Very often retailers are lucky to make 15 percent margins. Making 30 percent or so is huge. So when you look at vendors in general here, no one is making a killing. Soto put it in perspective in numbers we can understand with and example of coilovers that retails for 1800. Typical good wholesale among major brands will be anywhere from 25-35% off retail with a select few brands or ultra high volume distributors getting more And thats if you are direct with the manufacturer which most are not. To be direct, it often requires very large buy ins and monthly quotas that many retailers cannot meet. If there is a middle man distributor, figure they are take at least 5 percent. Then take into account that just to be competitive you have to discount at least 15% if not more. The more off retail the reseller is getting it for, often the more off they have to give to the public. So now take that set of coilovers and say they got 30% off is $1260. The best they can probably sell it for on a competitive site like this is maybe $1500, but maybe less. So thats $240 on 1500 in sales. Sounds like a big number when you think about your spending, but putting yourself in their position, that is a pretty high dollar sale for only 13 percent or so profit. And if you have a facility, inventory, employees, etc, thats not much money. So this is something to think about before you make the assumption that all these guys have astronomical markups. Compared to other industries, this has tiny markup. Hell, even on OEM replacement parts, the margins are 30-50 percent often at your local repair shop.
Also, wanted to thank bigric09 for the manner in which he presented his argument. He disagreed and I believe still does, but is able to do it in a respectful and constructive manner. This really helps when getting to the route of issues and sorting out problems. Simply saying we suck, etc helps nothing and makes no point
Also, wanted to thank bigric09 for the manner in which he presented his argument. He disagreed and I believe still does, but is able to do it in a respectful and constructive manner. This really helps when getting to the route of issues and sorting out problems. Simply saying we suck, etc helps nothing and makes no point
Last edited by CharlesJ; Nov 26, 2007 at 04:35 PM.
Evolved Member
iTrader: (37)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,146
Likes: 2
From: Spec-Ops Motorsports, Fayetteville, NC
well we all know we get raped by the dealer lol ... you arent making a point that is not well known there. I understand the flow of cost as well... I didnt say all vendors, but some do mark up quite a bit.... anyhow, not really a point to be made... this thread is about why yoparts left or rather why they were booted.
bigric09,
I can completely understand your side and many others like it. MFG's really determine pricing on product. Can you imagine what the market would be like if everyone sold for actual retail. Then I might be driving a Ferrari LOL. That is where MAP comes into play. This is as we all know a capitalist society and companies need to be competitive. It is that competitive nature that helps keep pricing at a reasonable level. There are limits to everything though, and as with anything people will push them. I thought the exact same thing about buying goods until I did two things:
1. sold new imported cars for a living
2. Worked at AMS for 5 years.
Now the car salesman thing is a whole different story but in short. If you knew how hard it was on the other side of the desk you would take a second thought about trying to beat up on that salesman... ESPECIALLY if he is selling an import. it really made me question my assumptions on profit margins. Dealer sold parts is a different story THAT IS BIG BUSINESS!
what really opened my eyes is when I started here. I thought "oh man, parts at cost!!! I'm going to save a fortune!" then I started looking up what these things cost us and my excitement dwindled to say the least. I couldn't believe there was so little markup. now my eyes are opened to how cheap people sell things and how they are undercutting the industry and really driving out good shops that can't keep up because they not just trying to sling parts but build a good SHOP and have to pay for overhead.
Nobody wants to pay more then they have to, but as some point you have to sit back and look at the big picture. Are you willing to pay that extra 3-7% to know that its going towards the future of our industry and helping to finance bigger things. The same question should be asked when your choosing WHERE to spend your hard earned money. Price is a big factor but don't overlook those other aspects. Cutting prices to bare bones and wholesale will bring an end to this hobby. I know some of you cant see it but its the truth. I hope after reading this entire thread and the response of Charles and EVO M that you will see both sides and understand why this action was taken.
Eric
I can completely understand your side and many others like it. MFG's really determine pricing on product. Can you imagine what the market would be like if everyone sold for actual retail. Then I might be driving a Ferrari LOL. That is where MAP comes into play. This is as we all know a capitalist society and companies need to be competitive. It is that competitive nature that helps keep pricing at a reasonable level. There are limits to everything though, and as with anything people will push them. I thought the exact same thing about buying goods until I did two things:
1. sold new imported cars for a living
2. Worked at AMS for 5 years.
Now the car salesman thing is a whole different story but in short. If you knew how hard it was on the other side of the desk you would take a second thought about trying to beat up on that salesman... ESPECIALLY if he is selling an import. it really made me question my assumptions on profit margins. Dealer sold parts is a different story THAT IS BIG BUSINESS!
what really opened my eyes is when I started here. I thought "oh man, parts at cost!!! I'm going to save a fortune!" then I started looking up what these things cost us and my excitement dwindled to say the least. I couldn't believe there was so little markup. now my eyes are opened to how cheap people sell things and how they are undercutting the industry and really driving out good shops that can't keep up because they not just trying to sling parts but build a good SHOP and have to pay for overhead.
Nobody wants to pay more then they have to, but as some point you have to sit back and look at the big picture. Are you willing to pay that extra 3-7% to know that its going towards the future of our industry and helping to finance bigger things. The same question should be asked when your choosing WHERE to spend your hard earned money. Price is a big factor but don't overlook those other aspects. Cutting prices to bare bones and wholesale will bring an end to this hobby. I know some of you cant see it but its the truth. I hope after reading this entire thread and the response of Charles and EVO M that you will see both sides and understand why this action was taken.
Eric
Last edited by AutoMotoSports; Nov 26, 2007 at 04:35 PM.
Evolved Member
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From: Spec-Ops Motorsports, Fayetteville, NC
Eric,
ive seen both sides since the beginning. Im a big supporter of yoparts, that is no secret, their customer service has been second to none, and ofcourse there prices are nice because they are wholesale prices. I definitely understand your side of things as well.... but your points are exactly the reason why i didnt understand why you were making a big stink about things. Your company and evo's are a hand and hand topic... you cant mention one or the other without including them in the same sentence. I dont expect any real ams supporter would shop outside of your shop for that 10% reason. You guys are supported because of what you have done in the past, what you continue to do now, and what you will be doing in the future. You make great products, do a good job with customer service and will be around long after many of us sell our cars and move on to something else. I realize you arent making enough money to just go out and buy a ferrari, you do however seem to be doing well enough to sell a salvaged title evo for 90k on ebay lol. Im sure there are a ton of man hours with that thing as well... just bustin your chops a bit.
In the end, i really have nothing to say to you guys.... i understand both sides of this discussion and it leaves me with nothing to say. There are a few issues that i find between everything on both sides, and that is when i comment.... and ofcourse as charles has heard for a week now, the growing power the vendors seem to be gaining and their opinions to me, and many others, seem to be driving the boat when i dont think it should. I think this site exist because of its members, the vendors are here as a contributing factor to these members and at that price, they pay to be here to keep the site functioning.... it just seems as though because of that, they have more of say so in what happens here.
ive seen both sides since the beginning. Im a big supporter of yoparts, that is no secret, their customer service has been second to none, and ofcourse there prices are nice because they are wholesale prices. I definitely understand your side of things as well.... but your points are exactly the reason why i didnt understand why you were making a big stink about things. Your company and evo's are a hand and hand topic... you cant mention one or the other without including them in the same sentence. I dont expect any real ams supporter would shop outside of your shop for that 10% reason. You guys are supported because of what you have done in the past, what you continue to do now, and what you will be doing in the future. You make great products, do a good job with customer service and will be around long after many of us sell our cars and move on to something else. I realize you arent making enough money to just go out and buy a ferrari, you do however seem to be doing well enough to sell a salvaged title evo for 90k on ebay lol. Im sure there are a ton of man hours with that thing as well... just bustin your chops a bit.
In the end, i really have nothing to say to you guys.... i understand both sides of this discussion and it leaves me with nothing to say. There are a few issues that i find between everything on both sides, and that is when i comment.... and ofcourse as charles has heard for a week now, the growing power the vendors seem to be gaining and their opinions to me, and many others, seem to be driving the boat when i dont think it should. I think this site exist because of its members, the vendors are here as a contributing factor to these members and at that price, they pay to be here to keep the site functioning.... it just seems as though because of that, they have more of say so in what happens here.
I think what really needs to be respected is the time and effort shops like AMS, BR, and many others put in...
people dont understand the upfront cost that goes into product development etc... meanwhile, there is no return on it.. you have your cost out of pocket, your time, your use of credit, etc....
therefor you have to have the margins to cover that... and of course, we all want to be profitable... or we would be doing something else...
ive only read lightly, but to see a company like AMS having to get defensive, bothers me, to say the least.
cb
people dont understand the upfront cost that goes into product development etc... meanwhile, there is no return on it.. you have your cost out of pocket, your time, your use of credit, etc....
therefor you have to have the margins to cover that... and of course, we all want to be profitable... or we would be doing something else...
ive only read lightly, but to see a company like AMS having to get defensive, bothers me, to say the least.
cb
Evolved Member
iTrader: (37)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,146
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From: Spec-Ops Motorsports, Fayetteville, NC
I think what really needs to be respected is the time and effort shops like AMS, BR, and many others put in...
people dont understand the upfront cost that goes into product development etc... meanwhile, there is no return on it.. you have your cost out of pocket, your time, your use of credit, etc....
therefor you have to have the margins to cover that... and of course, we all want to be profitable... or we would be doing something else...
ive only read lightly, but to see a company like AMS having to get defensive, bothers me, to say the least.
cb
people dont understand the upfront cost that goes into product development etc... meanwhile, there is no return on it.. you have your cost out of pocket, your time, your use of credit, etc....
therefor you have to have the margins to cover that... and of course, we all want to be profitable... or we would be doing something else...
ive only read lightly, but to see a company like AMS having to get defensive, bothers me, to say the least.
cb
they fall in to a category like you... a lot of R & D, a lot of customer service and a lot of positive results. If you ever have time to read a lot of threads that are being discussed, i think you will find AMS is not being so much defensive as they are trying to fortify their justification for their frame of mind. Unfortunately, with this situation also, the thread that was posted had AMS all over it and everyone assumes it was them causing all of the ruckus...
I think the comment that was made was something to the effect of yoparts needs to leave, if they arent forced to leave, we will stop selling parts from whatever distributors they are selling parts and no longer do business with those guys.
this to me was the thing that stuck out most in my mind... im not sure if the comment was made in anger, if the comment was something they would care to rephrase or what.... It just sat wrong in my stomach and a lot of other people as well. Other then that, they didnt do anything wrong in my mind, just took a stand for something they saw to be an issue for themselves and many others
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 34
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From: Ocean City, New Jers
I may be a noob but i have been on this site for a year now and in the import scene for years. I understand both sides but there is one thing i dont get. If they didnt break any rules, why wouldnt they be allowed to stay?? These guys came up with a great marketing idea and are trying to grow their business. Yes, its unfair in some way to the other vendors since they can still turn a profit from their membership dues, but thats the name of the game.
As a consumer, there are two major sides. One is i want to products for as cheap as i can and you just took that option away. You talk about these companies with high overheads and low profit margins but what about the community as a whole? I am 27 work my *** off and have a family. If i can save a couple hundred dollars on parts thats only going to get me more into the evo community. i had to save up for a year just tp get basic mods. its not fair you took that option away from us.
On the other hand, many enthusiats will continue to go to AMS and these other vendors due to the fact they trust them and know what they are getting. It may affect the business a little, but most people(inlcuding myself) will continue to do business with companies that specialize in evo performance.
All in all the saying stands true, there is no such thing as bad publicity. All this whole "fiasco" did was spread their name out there more, got more people talking about yo parts and "did you check them out" and bring bad light on these other vendors. i think if you would have just let them be a member of this forum, it would not have been the "doomsday" outcome you seem to expect
Don C
PS I never even looked at yo parts until this happened. I took them for BS and was fine paying higher prices from reputable shops, knowing i was ordering from good people. Now i see how much these vendors wanted them off, im like hey, maybe these guys are legit if they are so threaten by them. anyways, thats just my 2 cents i needed to get off my chest.
STILL LOVE YOU GUYS THOUGH!!!!
As a consumer, there are two major sides. One is i want to products for as cheap as i can and you just took that option away. You talk about these companies with high overheads and low profit margins but what about the community as a whole? I am 27 work my *** off and have a family. If i can save a couple hundred dollars on parts thats only going to get me more into the evo community. i had to save up for a year just tp get basic mods. its not fair you took that option away from us.
On the other hand, many enthusiats will continue to go to AMS and these other vendors due to the fact they trust them and know what they are getting. It may affect the business a little, but most people(inlcuding myself) will continue to do business with companies that specialize in evo performance.
All in all the saying stands true, there is no such thing as bad publicity. All this whole "fiasco" did was spread their name out there more, got more people talking about yo parts and "did you check them out" and bring bad light on these other vendors. i think if you would have just let them be a member of this forum, it would not have been the "doomsday" outcome you seem to expect
Don C
PS I never even looked at yo parts until this happened. I took them for BS and was fine paying higher prices from reputable shops, knowing i was ordering from good people. Now i see how much these vendors wanted them off, im like hey, maybe these guys are legit if they are so threaten by them. anyways, thats just my 2 cents i needed to get off my chest.
STILL LOVE YOU GUYS THOUGH!!!!