The SST - It's an Automatic, is it not?
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Joined: Feb 2012
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From: San Antonio, TX
I am definitely not one of those "manuals for life" kind of people. I don't care if I drive an auto or a 5-speed. I bought a GSR instead of a MR for a few reasons, and none of those reasons were because I didn't want to own an "automatic" Evo.
1. Price of car
2. Questionable long term durability of transmission
3. Price of transmission repair
4. Extra costs to upgrade the transmission with certain power increase
Thats pretty much it. I got a loaded GSR for the price of a stripped down MR. If both cars were the same price I would be rocking a MR.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Lost
I swear to god, I desperately hope you do not have kids.
I saw a lot of people demeaning others for calling their MR's automatics. That bothers me. How can you look down on someone for calling something what it is? This is a discussion that I am hoping reaches those who may in fact try to make someone else feel stupid for no reason.
To answer your question, absolutely fking yes, you are missing something.
I saw a lot of people demeaning others for calling their MR's automatics. That bothers me. How can you look down on someone for calling something what it is? This is a discussion that I am hoping reaches those who may in fact try to make someone else feel stupid for no reason.
To answer your question, absolutely fking yes, you are missing something.
People who do this come across as insecure jerks masquerading as elitist gearheads. Nobody is saying the MR is inferior - F1 cars and some of the hottest street cars on the planet come with this type of transmission. It's just that it's classified as an automatic.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission
This response was in the other thread and I would really like to reply to it.
I'm only going to take 2 points from your response.
1. I never once belittled people for having an SST transmission. You really need to read through the comments thoroughly before making a statement like that.
2. I want to take your "Boxer" engine vs standard inline 4 engine comment and pose a valid comparison instead of your general, point missed, correlation.
See, you think I am missing something when it comes to the technology behind the SST. I'm not. What YOU are missing is the actual root of the argument.
I'll explain. You are shouting about the differences in flat in-line cylinder movement vs horizontally opposed cylinder movement which could not be further from the argument at hand. Here's my point: are they both 4 cylinder engines? Or just because one has some new awesome revolutionary sleeved block or since the pistons go sideways instead if up and down does that now elevate it above your "standard" 4 cylinder engine because it's "so much better" than your stupid standard 4 cylinder engine and therefore CAN'T be put in the same category as those other stupid 4 cylinder engines????
I'll give you the answer. The answer is a resounding no. They are both still 4 bangers. Do you now understand why I started this debate?
A dual clutch transmission is in fact a "semi automatic" by definition a strict automatic is a single clutch gear box that handles all gears automatically at all times manufactures of all types have been sporting manual modes in automatic transmissions for quite some time to make the car feel sporting and fresh but it doesnt it makes acar feel sluggish. Its no different from shifting from low too over drive in normal automatics dual clutch transmissions how ever have been used in all types of racing its basically what makes the gtr so responsive. With a dual clutch you can hold and shift gears faster than a manual gear box. Not to mention retaining full focus of the road . Its like powershifting without the lag of clutch and row and the fear of missing a gear or blowing youre trans. Gsr owners bash ralliart or mr drivers but the truth is you got stuck with 5 gears which youll row through all 5 in the1/4 mile in stead of 6 gears this generation. My problem is youre like Wikipedia any one can post to it. But there arent always.truths on the site. There is a huge difference between a dual clutch.semi automatic transmission and a standard single clutch automatic. Its like saying a rotary motor is no different from a regular motor or a boxer is noddifferent from a standard inline 4 while they achieve the same over all goal they are different animals all together and to deny that is a horrid deal on youre part if you like a manual car thats fine but dont belittle people that favor a nother method of transfering power personally id prefer a manual if iwas driving back roads but im in the city and deal with rush hour so a dual clutch is what id go for due to rush hour id rather not shift between 1st and 3rd back and forth to work every day
1. I never once belittled people for having an SST transmission. You really need to read through the comments thoroughly before making a statement like that.
2. I want to take your "Boxer" engine vs standard inline 4 engine comment and pose a valid comparison instead of your general, point missed, correlation.
See, you think I am missing something when it comes to the technology behind the SST. I'm not. What YOU are missing is the actual root of the argument.
I'll explain. You are shouting about the differences in flat in-line cylinder movement vs horizontally opposed cylinder movement which could not be further from the argument at hand. Here's my point: are they both 4 cylinder engines? Or just because one has some new awesome revolutionary sleeved block or since the pistons go sideways instead if up and down does that now elevate it above your "standard" 4 cylinder engine because it's "so much better" than your stupid standard 4 cylinder engine and therefore CAN'T be put in the same category as those other stupid 4 cylinder engines????
I'll give you the answer. The answer is a resounding no. They are both still 4 bangers. Do you now understand why I started this debate?
And please stay on point. This debate is not about what direction automobile manufacturers are going with regards to advancing technology. Just because robots can do more for you does not make it as "fun" or "enjoyable" for everyone.
I agree. There should be another classification.
Except that it's not. It is as much an automatic as the Prius is a petrol engine car.
My point being the SST should be treated in the same sense as a hybrid. I really thought that would be something people could agree too.
You're right he said "everyone with a traditional manual" Inferring that his "manual" is not considered traditional which also infers that he did not omit him self from the manual category.
Also the SST, if I'm not mistaken, is a recent type of transmission? Why should it HAVE to fall in one of 2 categories. Also doesn't trip-tronic apply to a traditional Automatic? Being that the SST is not a traditional Automatic (nor Traditional Manual since its a mx of both) the term "trip-tronic" becomes irrelevant. Yes?
Except that it's not. It is as much an automatic as the Prius is a petrol engine car.
My point being the SST should be treated in the same sense as a hybrid. I really thought that would be something people could agree too.
You're right he said "everyone with a traditional manual" Inferring that his "manual" is not considered traditional which also infers that he did not omit him self from the manual category.
Also the SST, if I'm not mistaken, is a recent type of transmission? Why should it HAVE to fall in one of 2 categories. Also doesn't trip-tronic apply to a traditional Automatic? Being that the SST is not a traditional Automatic (nor Traditional Manual since its a mx of both) the term "trip-tronic" becomes irrelevant. Yes?
There's only one type of manual...a manual. That's it.
The reason it HAS to fall into one of two categories is because there are only two categories for it to fall into!!!!!!! One of the first lessons I remember as a kid was finding the root of a word. The root of the SST is computer controlled shifting of gears - regardless of the super awesome "manual mode". Even in Manual Mode, you still click a button, and then a computer changes gears for you. You do nothing. The car does it "automatically" for you.
{thum bup}**Edit: And do you know why there are still only two categories for transmissions? Because there are only two types of transmissions! F1, SST, SMG - all of these are automatics at heart - they just each bring a little something different to the table as far as HOW THEY AUTOMATICALLY SHIFT GEARS.
Last edited by NeedBoost!; Aug 16, 2013 at 07:45 AM.
This is the rub. I have been following the thread this started in for a long time. The thread was "funny/stupid things people say about your Evo" and there were several comments from MR drivers about people calling their car automatic. None of them were funny, and they were portraying it as "slap my head I'm dealing with a moron" stupid. Some random dude who sees your car and says "cool evo - did you get the manual or the automatic" doesn't need to be treated like an idiot for not knowing intimate details about the inner workings of the transmission.
People who do this come across as insecure jerks masquerading as elitist gearheads. Nobody is saying the MR is inferior - F1 cars and some of the hottest street cars on the planet come with this type of transmission. It's just that it's classified as an automatic.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-...c_transmission
People who do this come across as insecure jerks masquerading as elitist gearheads. Nobody is saying the MR is inferior - F1 cars and some of the hottest street cars on the planet come with this type of transmission. It's just that it's classified as an automatic.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-...c_transmission
F1 cars dont use dual clutch transmission... They still have a manual clutch that must be used at a stop or to go into reverse... Their transmission are sequential which is why they paddle shift...
The sst is 2 manual transmission placed side by side... 1/3/5 on one 2/4/6 on the other and it has 2 clutchs that are computer controlled that activated each range of gears... Porsche pdk's and vw dsg's are the same but not f1... The dual clutch also uses shift rails/forks of a manual... A true automatic uses bands, drums, clutch packs, and planetary gearsets. None of which are in the sst...
Basically its a computer operated manual transmission that pretends to be a automatic while outperformaning anything with a torque converter or single clutch...
As many people have said dual clutch transmissions are hybrids they fall into neither catagory... And with the more recent cvt transmission that dont use any of the garbage from either style but rather pulleys and a chain and the old sequential transmission which doesnt use half of the crap in a manual, there are now 5 types of transmissions...
Not 2
Now that you have been informed, bicker amoungst yourselves
Last edited by joseph143; Aug 16, 2013 at 08:00 AM.
F1 cars dont use dual clutch transmission... They still have a manual clutch that must be used at a stop or to go into reverse... Their transmission are sequential which is why they paddle shift...
The sst is 2 manual transmission placed side by side... 1/3/5 on one 2/4/6 on the other and it has 2 clutchs that are computer controlled that activated each range of gears... Porsche pdk's and vw dsg's are the same but not f1... The dual clutch also uses syncro's and shift rails/forks of a manual... A true automatic uses bands, drums, clutch packs, and planetary gearsets. None of which are in the sst...
Basically its a computer operated manual transmission that pretends to be a automatic while outperformaning anything with a torque converter or single clutch...
As many people have said dual clutch transmissions are hybrids they fall into neither catagory... And with the more recent cvt transmission that dont use any of the garbage from either style but rather pulleys and a chain and the old sequential transmission which doesnt use half of the crap in a manual, there are now 5 types of transmissions...
Not 2
Now that you have been informed, bicker amoungst yourselves
The sst is 2 manual transmission placed side by side... 1/3/5 on one 2/4/6 on the other and it has 2 clutchs that are computer controlled that activated each range of gears... Porsche pdk's and vw dsg's are the same but not f1... The dual clutch also uses syncro's and shift rails/forks of a manual... A true automatic uses bands, drums, clutch packs, and planetary gearsets. None of which are in the sst...
Basically its a computer operated manual transmission that pretends to be a automatic while outperformaning anything with a torque converter or single clutch...
As many people have said dual clutch transmissions are hybrids they fall into neither catagory... And with the more recent cvt transmission that dont use any of the garbage from either style but rather pulleys and a chain and the old sequential transmission which doesnt use half of the crap in a manual, there are now 5 types of transmissions...
Not 2
Now that you have been informed, bicker amoungst yourselves
So let me ask you a simple question: While driving the SST or PDK or DSG, do you ever, as the human, physically change gears yourself? Not by pressing a button which just sends a command to a computer, but do you yourself actually physically (or should I say "manually") change the synchro positioning inside of the transmission?
Edit: and I love how you took the time to read through the entire thread, post a bunch of technical information, and then act like you don't give a flying f**k and that we're all just a bunch of bickering old hens...
Last edited by NeedBoost!; Aug 16, 2013 at 08:13 AM.
Ok but it is. It shifts for you. Automatically. I don't care if the computer uses twelve clutches or if there's a little robot sitting on top of the transmission with his own stick shift and clutch pedal - the computer still shifts the gears. Automatically. So it's an automatic. A really cool, neato automatic.
No! Its dct! Its a completely seperate type of transmission... This one just happens to be electronically controlled... You cant class it auto or manual... Is a dct... **** isnt black and white.
A dual-clutch transmission, (DCT) (sometimes referred to as a twin-clutch gearbox or double-clutch transmission), is a type of semi-automatic or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydraulic_manual_transmission automotive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_%28mechanics%29. It uses two separate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutchhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission#cite_note-AMS-1 for odd and even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_train. It can fundamentally be described as two separate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission (with their respective clutches) contained within one housing, and working as one unit.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission#cite_note-AEI-2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission#cite_note-PorschePDK_Glossary-3 They are usually operated in a fully automatic mode, and many also have the ability to allow the driver to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumatic,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission#cite_note-AMS-1 albeit still carried out by the transmission's electro-hydraulics.
Seriously, what can't you understand about the word "automated"?
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Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Vancouver BC
Ugh - this has been beaten to death. People seem to be throwing wikipedia articles around and trying to use that as fact... Yes, the transmission is automated - but it is not an automatic transmission in the traditional sense that some people are trying to box it into.
Automatic transmissions traditionally use a torque converter. I've attached a cut away from a GM Turbo Hydramatic 400. This is a slush box, an automatic transmission.
Below is a cut away drawing of Volvo's Powershift box - it's a Getrag unit just like the SST.
They share very little in common. The last cut away is from a run of the mill 5 speed cutaway. This is from a 3000 GT as I just don't have time to find absolutely correct photos etc.
Now ask yourself, what does the SST type transmission share more in common with? Oh yes, it's a manual gear box, with cut gears, not bands and friction discs floating in fluid. The SST is an automated manual type transmission. It utilizes similar technology to that of a manual transmission but has 2 clutches which are computer controlled. The fact that it even has a clutch and not a torque converter is really the last nail in the coffin regarding this argument.
Usually this argument is started by someone who just wants to get people fighting each other. And usually the two sides are those who drive an 2008 + MR and those who drive a 2008 + GSR. Those with a 5 speed traditional manual find it imperative to start a pissing match about this as the MR is looked upon as a lesser Evo due to this gear box. Frustrates the hell out of me.
I'm not saying that this thread was started in the manner stated above, but that has been the trend for the last 5 years.
Automatic transmissions traditionally use a torque converter. I've attached a cut away from a GM Turbo Hydramatic 400. This is a slush box, an automatic transmission.
Below is a cut away drawing of Volvo's Powershift box - it's a Getrag unit just like the SST.
They share very little in common. The last cut away is from a run of the mill 5 speed cutaway. This is from a 3000 GT as I just don't have time to find absolutely correct photos etc.
Now ask yourself, what does the SST type transmission share more in common with? Oh yes, it's a manual gear box, with cut gears, not bands and friction discs floating in fluid. The SST is an automated manual type transmission. It utilizes similar technology to that of a manual transmission but has 2 clutches which are computer controlled. The fact that it even has a clutch and not a torque converter is really the last nail in the coffin regarding this argument.
Usually this argument is started by someone who just wants to get people fighting each other. And usually the two sides are those who drive an 2008 + MR and those who drive a 2008 + GSR. Those with a 5 speed traditional manual find it imperative to start a pissing match about this as the MR is looked upon as a lesser Evo due to this gear box. Frustrates the hell out of me.
I'm not saying that this thread was started in the manner stated above, but that has been the trend for the last 5 years.
Ugh - this has been beaten to death. People seem to be throwing wikipedia articles around and trying to use that as fact... Yes, the transmission is automated - but it is not an automatic transmission in the traditional sense that some people are trying to box it into.
Automatic transmissions traditionally use a torque converter. I've attached a cut away from a GM Turbo Hydramatic 400. This is a slush box, an automatic transmission.
Below is a cut away drawing of Volvo's Powershift box - it's a Getrag unit just like the SST.
They share very little in common. The last cut away is from a run of the mill 5 speed cutaway. This is from a 3000 GT as I just don't have time to find absolutely correct photos etc.
Now ask yourself, what does the SST type transmission share more in common with? Oh yes, it's a manual gear box, with cut gears, not bands and friction discs floating in fluid. The SST is an automated manual type transmission. It utilizes similar technology to that of a manual transmission but has 2 clutches which are computer controlled. The fact that it even has a clutch and not a torque converter is really the last nail in the coffin regarding this argument.
Usually this argument is started by someone who just wants to get people fighting each other. And usually the two sides are those who drive an 2008 + MR and those who drive a 2008 + GSR. Those with a 5 speed traditional manual find it imperative to start a pissing match about this as the MR is looked upon as a lesser Evo due to this gear box. Frustrates the hell out of me.
I'm not saying that this thread was started in the manner stated above, but that has been the trend for the last 5 years.
Automatic transmissions traditionally use a torque converter. I've attached a cut away from a GM Turbo Hydramatic 400. This is a slush box, an automatic transmission.
Below is a cut away drawing of Volvo's Powershift box - it's a Getrag unit just like the SST.
They share very little in common. The last cut away is from a run of the mill 5 speed cutaway. This is from a 3000 GT as I just don't have time to find absolutely correct photos etc.
Now ask yourself, what does the SST type transmission share more in common with? Oh yes, it's a manual gear box, with cut gears, not bands and friction discs floating in fluid. The SST is an automated manual type transmission. It utilizes similar technology to that of a manual transmission but has 2 clutches which are computer controlled. The fact that it even has a clutch and not a torque converter is really the last nail in the coffin regarding this argument.
Usually this argument is started by someone who just wants to get people fighting each other. And usually the two sides are those who drive an 2008 + MR and those who drive a 2008 + GSR. Those with a 5 speed traditional manual find it imperative to start a pissing match about this as the MR is looked upon as a lesser Evo due to this gear box. Frustrates the hell out of me.
I'm not saying that this thread was started in the manner stated above, but that has been the trend for the last 5 years.
All you're doing is forcing super technological differences into a basic term that is used to separate the only two types of cars there are on the planet - those that shift gears for you, and those that do not.