Community Tephra Tweaking
Well thanks guys from all your suggestions. I got paid today, im going to buy a 399 evo maf sensor to see if this helps. I still have 370cc injectors i have not installed yet, so i figure ill install these this weekend and scale them.
03lances i have tried injector scaling by lowering the value but i dont know to how much is "ok" i have lowered it to 220 and it didnt seem to help too much. but maybe i will lower it some more and see what it does for me, thank you for the suggestion!
ClixT, i was thinking the same thing... the stock lancer rom has the settings specifically for our knock sensor, and the starting up when the car is warm would also be fixed.. but the cap on the load % and IPW would still exsist and make tuning pretty hard to do. But i was also thinking about just copyin the stuff from the tephra rom into the lancer rom's XML and see if it will work, but i dont want to take a chance as to mess up the cars computer, its a good thought tho.
Imalancerman, thanks for your input, i know what you mean about changing things so much and then forgetting them and things just get hectic. Ill reflash the stock tephra v7 rom into my car today and start over, im sure this will help me out, i just need to be patient and make small changes at a time.
So in conclusion, im going to take your advice steven and those who have also mentioned it in the past, (hornstar & 03lances) and just get the 399 MAF sensor. Will the 370cc injectors be ok for now at 5 psi? im hitting about 96% WOT on my stock injectors.
03lances i have tried injector scaling by lowering the value but i dont know to how much is "ok" i have lowered it to 220 and it didnt seem to help too much. but maybe i will lower it some more and see what it does for me, thank you for the suggestion!
ClixT, i was thinking the same thing... the stock lancer rom has the settings specifically for our knock sensor, and the starting up when the car is warm would also be fixed.. but the cap on the load % and IPW would still exsist and make tuning pretty hard to do. But i was also thinking about just copyin the stuff from the tephra rom into the lancer rom's XML and see if it will work, but i dont want to take a chance as to mess up the cars computer, its a good thought tho.
Imalancerman, thanks for your input, i know what you mean about changing things so much and then forgetting them and things just get hectic. Ill reflash the stock tephra v7 rom into my car today and start over, im sure this will help me out, i just need to be patient and make small changes at a time.
So in conclusion, im going to take your advice steven and those who have also mentioned it in the past, (hornstar & 03lances) and just get the 399 MAF sensor. Will the 370cc injectors be ok for now at 5 psi? im hitting about 96% WOT on my stock injectors.
Last edited by Mitsu.kid.02; Nov 19, 2010 at 05:55 AM.
I would install those injectors ASAP. I forgot you had those. if you dropped it to 220 with no difference at all my guesd is whatever caps that rom has is in full effect and slapping in those other injectors might be the only option. Tuning is a ***** lol. However we learn a TON along the way and its worth the hassle and frustration in the end I promise 
haha, im not slowzrally on this forum though. and i think if you go read up on the "evo rom can be flashed" thread, i believe thats what link and someone else were trying to do was mod the base lancer rom for autos. They were having alot of issues with shifting and sectors not being defined correctly.
Also, I didnt mean go to the base lancer rom specifically, although that should be more than enough if you are staying with really low boost. I meant you should start with a stock tephra rom and start over from scratch on it. sometimes we don't think about all the values that we change and our roms end up looking awful, and sometimes the problem simply lies with something that we forgot that we changed. so start from the beginning. Mod the rom to where your car will drive and idle, then start the tuning process fresh. Its helped me a couple times in the past. Especially going back and reading which settings to change initially, sometimes i will find things i overlooked in the threads.
Also, I didnt mean go to the base lancer rom specifically, although that should be more than enough if you are staying with really low boost. I meant you should start with a stock tephra rom and start over from scratch on it. sometimes we don't think about all the values that we change and our roms end up looking awful, and sometimes the problem simply lies with something that we forgot that we changed. so start from the beginning. Mod the rom to where your car will drive and idle, then start the tuning process fresh. Its helped me a couple times in the past. Especially going back and reading which settings to change initially, sometimes i will find things i overlooked in the threads.
i used to be helping them but school got in the way, even now.. =(
I would install those injectors ASAP. I forgot you had those. if you dropped it to 220 with no difference at all my guesd is whatever caps that rom has is in full effect and slapping in those other injectors might be the only option. Tuning is a ***** lol. However we learn a TON along the way and its worth the hassle and frustration in the end I promise
Im going to install the larger injectors this weekend, and im going to start with the fresh tephra rom again and make small changes, hopefully things will work out a little better this time. So when i scale the injectors i need to be in closed loop again right? then once there scaled i can run open loop all the time again?
Well, scaling is more of a trial and error thing it seems, but you can do like 03lances did and just pick a scaling 15% or so lower than the max capacity of the injectors, ie 440cc injectors x .85 = 374. Then, you just do like you're thinking, drive around and see if the AFRMAP in open loop matches the fuel map. If it does, then you drive in closed loop and check your fuel trims, adjusting the injector battery compensation latency thingie as necessary.
I know some said "new tephra" and I said "new base lancer", but the reason I say get it working on a base lancer rom, is that you will have a good idea with a rom meant for this engine. I edited my timing map and fuel map to get them into a "boost worthy" setup, before going to the tephra, which let me know a lot about my car. For 1, it let me know about the knock sensors. I knew what I was running was at least safe enough using the stock computer. Then, when I went to the evo rom, I know the sort of driving behaviors and log values I should see....and it helped me to spot any inconsistencies.
Now, I really hope that 399 Maf + injectors is the solution, but just for the good of the community, can you install them separately? I'd really like to see a comparison of whatever the stock injectors do vs the ones you put in, and see if it leans or richens and where. Then, an additional comparison of the MAF before and after, as far as logs go, to be able to know how we should steer those future souls with automatics. Hate to say it Mitsu, but you're still a guinea piggie!!!
Oh, here's my fav link https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...upermerge.html
I know some said "new tephra" and I said "new base lancer", but the reason I say get it working on a base lancer rom, is that you will have a good idea with a rom meant for this engine. I edited my timing map and fuel map to get them into a "boost worthy" setup, before going to the tephra, which let me know a lot about my car. For 1, it let me know about the knock sensors. I knew what I was running was at least safe enough using the stock computer. Then, when I went to the evo rom, I know the sort of driving behaviors and log values I should see....and it helped me to spot any inconsistencies.
Now, I really hope that 399 Maf + injectors is the solution, but just for the good of the community, can you install them separately? I'd really like to see a comparison of whatever the stock injectors do vs the ones you put in, and see if it leans or richens and where. Then, an additional comparison of the MAF before and after, as far as logs go, to be able to know how we should steer those future souls with automatics. Hate to say it Mitsu, but you're still a guinea piggie!!!
Oh, here's my fav link https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...upermerge.html
Well, scaling is more of a trial and error thing it seems, but you can do like 03lances did and just pick a scaling 15% or so lower than the max capacity of the injectors, ie 440cc injectors x .85 = 374. Then, you just do like you're thinking, drive around and see if the AFRMAP in open loop matches the fuel map. If it does, then you drive in closed loop and check your fuel trims, adjusting the injector battery compensation latency thingie as necessary.
I know some said "new tephra" and I said "new base lancer", but the reason I say get it working on a base lancer rom, is that you will have a good idea with a rom meant for this engine. I edited my timing map and fuel map to get them into a "boost worthy" setup, before going to the tephra, which let me know a lot about my car. For 1, it let me know about the knock sensors. I knew what I was running was at least safe enough using the stock computer. Then, when I went to the evo rom, I know the sort of driving behaviors and log values I should see....and it helped me to spot any inconsistencies.
Now, I really hope that 399 Maf + injectors is the solution, but just for the good of the community, can you install them separately? I'd really like to see a comparison of whatever the stock injectors do vs the ones you put in, and see if it leans or richens and where. Then, an additional comparison of the MAF before and after, as far as logs go, to be able to know how we should steer those future souls with automatics. Hate to say it Mitsu, but you're still a guinea piggie!!!
Oh, here's my fav link https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...upermerge.html
I know some said "new tephra" and I said "new base lancer", but the reason I say get it working on a base lancer rom, is that you will have a good idea with a rom meant for this engine. I edited my timing map and fuel map to get them into a "boost worthy" setup, before going to the tephra, which let me know a lot about my car. For 1, it let me know about the knock sensors. I knew what I was running was at least safe enough using the stock computer. Then, when I went to the evo rom, I know the sort of driving behaviors and log values I should see....and it helped me to spot any inconsistencies.
Now, I really hope that 399 Maf + injectors is the solution, but just for the good of the community, can you install them separately? I'd really like to see a comparison of whatever the stock injectors do vs the ones you put in, and see if it leans or richens and where. Then, an additional comparison of the MAF before and after, as far as logs go, to be able to know how we should steer those future souls with automatics. Hate to say it Mitsu, but you're still a guinea piggie!!!
Oh, here's my fav link https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...upermerge.html
Well i hope to figure things out and master them well so all the other auto guys who turbo there car dont have to go through all the trouble i did to figure this stuff out! Wich i dont mind at all, its just furstrating sometimes. But like 03lances said, in the end it will be very worth it, so im not giving up on this stuff. So i will get a good "non knocking tune" even if its slow, then ill install the injectors and try to "re-tune" and see if things get a little easyer to tune with less knock. As soon as i get my 399 MAF sensor ill install ill keep the stock smoothing table but change the scaling to that of the evo's and change the g/s size as well. Ill then "re-tune" again and try to see if its easyer, or if the fuel is "there" in boost withought touching the MAF scaling, ill proceed to "adjust" the fuel map and see if i can get it to fuel better, if not ill try to scale the MAF sensor and see if i can "smooth" it out and get fuel consistantly to the motor. Hopefully i will be able to tune the car so its "faster" than stock with no issues with excessive knock. Ill keep you guys posted 
By "I still have it" you are using the 512 auto rom that mitsu is also using right? You're not turbo'd though, so you probably don't have many issues. I wonder how far the EvoVII rom stuff went....from what I heard the pinouts were identical, though I can't compare because I don't have a stock lancer pinout here at work. I have the FSM at home, but I'm not there right now.That would be a much better option, if it worked...but, meh, if it's been checked and don't work, then it don't work...
By "I still have it" you are using the 512 auto rom that mitsu is also using right? You're not turbo'd though, so you probably don't have many issues. I wonder how far the EvoVII rom stuff went....from what I heard the pinouts were identical, though I can't compare because I don't have a stock lancer pinout here at work. I have the FSM at home, but I'm not there right now.That would be a much better option, if it worked...but, meh, if it's been checked and don't work, then it don't work...
I sent you an email mitsu, but here's the gist of it. I talked to Roadspike, and while he's no longer involved, he did say Evo7 rom flashes, but doesn't shift right. The one you have currently works, but above 110mph you're going to have weird timing issues due to an unknown somewhere. The Fuel settings for load and IDC are "enabled" in the rom you have, allowing your load to go above 120 and your IDC to go above 70, but you're still leaning out, so injectors may solve the problem, or at least reduce it.
Also, he pointed me toward MrFred or phenom or tephra or those guys, and said they might be able to track down what the issue of not being able to put enough fuel in because of some limit on how the ECU is interpreting airflow, and adding fuel for it. Lets see how those injectors do, and I'm PM'ing the gurus just to get an idea of how they feel about the whole issue, not necessarily to ask for help yet....just a "feeler".
*edit* well I was way more long-winded in my PM than I intended to be, but maybe one of those gurus will show interest, and see if they can't tell us how to make the auto lancer + tephra rom "act" like it's an evo rom, and adjust better for boost. That timing thing kinda scares me too, don't go over 110 for now, aye?
Also, he pointed me toward MrFred or phenom or tephra or those guys, and said they might be able to track down what the issue of not being able to put enough fuel in because of some limit on how the ECU is interpreting airflow, and adding fuel for it. Lets see how those injectors do, and I'm PM'ing the gurus just to get an idea of how they feel about the whole issue, not necessarily to ask for help yet....just a "feeler".
*edit* well I was way more long-winded in my PM than I intended to be, but maybe one of those gurus will show interest, and see if they can't tell us how to make the auto lancer + tephra rom "act" like it's an evo rom, and adjust better for boost. That timing thing kinda scares me too, don't go over 110 for now, aye?
Last edited by HornstarBU; Nov 19, 2010 at 12:39 PM.
I sent you an email mitsu, but here's the gist of it. I talked to Roadspike, and while he's no longer involved, he did say Evo7 rom flashes, but doesn't shift right. The one you have currently works, but above 110mph you're going to have weird timing issues due to an unknown somewhere. The Fuel settings for load and IDC are "enabled" in the rom you have, allowing your load to go above 120 and your IDC to go above 70, but you're still leaning out, so injectors may solve the problem, or at least reduce it.
Also, he pointed me toward MrFred or phenom or tephra or those guys, and said they might be able to track down what the issue of not being able to put enough fuel in because of some limit on how the ECU is interpreting airflow, and adding fuel for it. Lets see how those injectors do, and I'm PM'ing the gurus just to get an idea of how they feel about the whole issue, not necessarily to ask for help yet....just a "feeler".
*edit* well I was way more long-winded in my PM than I intended to be, but maybe one of those gurus will show interest, and see if they can't tell us how to make the auto lancer + tephra rom "act" like it's an evo rom, and adjust better for boost. That timing thing kinda scares me too, don't go over 110 for now, aye?
Also, he pointed me toward MrFred or phenom or tephra or those guys, and said they might be able to track down what the issue of not being able to put enough fuel in because of some limit on how the ECU is interpreting airflow, and adding fuel for it. Lets see how those injectors do, and I'm PM'ing the gurus just to get an idea of how they feel about the whole issue, not necessarily to ask for help yet....just a "feeler".
*edit* well I was way more long-winded in my PM than I intended to be, but maybe one of those gurus will show interest, and see if they can't tell us how to make the auto lancer + tephra rom "act" like it's an evo rom, and adjust better for boost. That timing thing kinda scares me too, don't go over 110 for now, aye?
Dude you ****ing rock
big thanks to you for helping me out so much, really appreciated! LMK if any info arrises that will be useful, you have my current ROM and XML if they do show intrest and want to help out I got the e-mail and i sent you an email back.. should i still scale the MAF now of should i wait to install the new injectors and MAF sensor?
Roadspike thinks that, while he removed the 120 load limit, that there may be some sort of relationship between airflow and the maf size that limits that, and the evo rom may just flat out ignore it. I think putting in a 399 maf is definitely a good thing to try. Can you swing that? And do you have the injectors and are you putting them in this weekend?
Roadspike thinks that, while he removed the 120 load limit, that there may be some sort of relationship between airflow and the maf size that limits that, and the evo rom may just flat out ignore it. I think putting in a 399 maf is definitely a good thing to try. Can you swing that? And do you have the injectors and are you putting them in this weekend?
Injectors go in this weekend, and ill try to find a 399 MAF sensor, i hope this helps man
By "I still have it" you are using the 512 auto rom that mitsu is also using right? You're not turbo'd though, so you probably don't have many issues. I wonder how far the EvoVII rom stuff went....from what I heard the pinouts were identical, though I can't compare because I don't have a stock lancer pinout here at work. I have the FSM at home, but I'm not there right now.That would be a much better option, if it worked...but, meh, if it's been checked and don't work, then it don't work...
im going to flash the tephra v7 though later this week. (adjusted for na)
freakin weather is bad..
lancer and gta pinout
EDIT: added the lancer and gta pin out
Last edited by ClixT; Nov 19, 2010 at 04:32 PM.