dragracing and all wheel drive??
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ok i did some reading on this after that last huge debate we had and this is the facts, clear and concise. awd will launch better...but that is just the launch...it will initially be in the lead but then the rwd car will quickly pass it up. accelerating is best when power is to the rear wheels...so ideally you want all of it to the rear. with awd you will have more power loss through the drive train, which means even less power to the rear and to the front. the power to the front wheels is pretty much wasted...it would do much more good going to the rear. the rear wheels have more grip due to downforce and the momentum of the car moving the weight back onto the rear tires so rwd cars are putting more power to the ground in a more effective manner as well.
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Originally posted by evo penguin
ok i did some reading on this after that last huge debate we had and this is the facts, clear and concise. awd will launch better...but that is just the launch...it will initially be in the lead but then the rwd car will quickly pass it up.
accelerating is best when power is to the rear wheels...so ideally you want all of it to the rear. with awd you will have more power loss through the drive train, which means even less power to the rear and to the front. the power to the front wheels is pretty much wasted...it would do much more good going to the rear. the rear wheels have more grip due to downforce and the momentum of the car moving the weight back onto the rear tires so rwd cars are putting more power to the ground in a more effective manner as well.
ok i did some reading on this after that last huge debate we had and this is the facts, clear and concise. awd will launch better...but that is just the launch...it will initially be in the lead but then the rwd car will quickly pass it up.
accelerating is best when power is to the rear wheels...so ideally you want all of it to the rear. with awd you will have more power loss through the drive train, which means even less power to the rear and to the front. the power to the front wheels is pretty much wasted...it would do much more good going to the rear. the rear wheels have more grip due to downforce and the momentum of the car moving the weight back onto the rear tires so rwd cars are putting more power to the ground in a more effective manner as well.
The rest I agreed with you on. If you check other posts I've made on power loss, this is basically what I've said. That is why 1/4 trap speeds are higher for a RWD then an AWD vehicle when you compare identical times.
It's nice to see that you have advanced ahead of EvoSouL in thinking and reasoning.
Last edited by evo_dan; Apr 2, 2002 at 05:11 AM.
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What about if both an AWD and RWD car weighed the same and had the same amount of hp and torque at the wheels (not flywheel). Assuming both drivers are equal, the AWD would probably get the better launch and get a slight lead first, but then would the RWD catch up or would the lead stay the same all the way down the strip?
Originally posted by evo penguin
ok i did some reading on this after that last huge debate we had and this is the facts, clear and concise. awd will launch better...but that is just the launch...it will initially be in the lead but then the rwd car will quickly pass it up. accelerating is best when power is to the rear wheels...so ideally you want all of it to the rear. with awd you will have more power loss through the drive train, which means even less power to the rear and to the front. the power to the front wheels is pretty much wasted...it would do much more good going to the rear. the rear wheels have more grip due to downforce and the momentum of the car moving the weight back onto the rear tires so rwd cars are putting more power to the ground in a more effective manner as well.
ok i did some reading on this after that last huge debate we had and this is the facts, clear and concise. awd will launch better...but that is just the launch...it will initially be in the lead but then the rwd car will quickly pass it up. accelerating is best when power is to the rear wheels...so ideally you want all of it to the rear. with awd you will have more power loss through the drive train, which means even less power to the rear and to the front. the power to the front wheels is pretty much wasted...it would do much more good going to the rear. the rear wheels have more grip due to downforce and the momentum of the car moving the weight back onto the rear tires so rwd cars are putting more power to the ground in a more effective manner as well.
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i would think the rwd would catch up...in awd the front wheels only aid in the launch...after the launch the power to the front is WASTED. if there was an awd system that would only put power to the front on launch, then all power was transfered to the rear after it passes lets say 10 mph...then that would be like the perfect drive train system. if you watch high power cars...not necessarily dragster but just very high powered cars...when they launch the entire weight of the car shifts back adn you can see the front end lift so traction in the front is minimal...hell sometiems the front wheels leave the ground completly. what im saying is after the launch an awd car is significantly lacking in rear wheel power which does pretty much ALL of the work in a drag race so i would think the rwd would catch up.
oh and when im talking about the power to the front being wasted im just talking about in a dragrace...i know the frotn wheels aid in handling...
oh and when im talking about the power to the front being wasted im just talking about in a dragrace...i know the frotn wheels aid in handling...
Last edited by evo penguin; Apr 2, 2002 at 06:06 AM.
Weight isn't the only factor against AWD, there's also drivetrain losses which are usually much higher because of the AWD system. So even an AWD car that had full power to the wheels wouldn't be as good. You can also launch a RWD car just as well with the proper launch and setup.
Mark
Mark
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Read nykwan's question carefully. He said "what if both cars had the same amount of hp and torque at the wheels (not flywheel)."
By the way Mark, how do I split up a quote so I can add comments in-between. I tried it and it adds my comments to the quote.
By the way Mark, how do I split up a quote so I can add comments in-between. I tried it and it adds my comments to the quote.
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Speaking newtonianlly, if everything was perfect no drivetrain loss and no wheel spin after every shift I don't think no one would know which is faster. Even though, the RWD would have more power going to two wheels if the driver isn't careful or experienced enough he/she could have wheel spin everytime they shifted which, is less likely to happen on a AWD car. lancerz.com has a mpeg of a supra-vs-evo race and the evo never loses the lead. The evo just leaps out on the launch and it's catch up time the whole way down the track for the supra. I think that the supra is very fast but, the driver has to know how to drive it. I've seen supras go really fast at the track but, everytime they shifted they suffered wheel spin. I've yet to see a fast AWD DSM suffer from wheel spin everytime they shifted.
Mike L.
Mike L.
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yah i know...ok lets look at it this way say there 2 cars with 300 hp to the wheels. for the awd we will say it has the same awd system as bmws which places 68% of the pwoer to the rear and the other 32 to the front. that means there is 204 wheel horsepower the the rear and 96 to the front. the rwd would have all 300 to the rear. the small lead the awd intitally gets will be quickly overran by the rwd car because all of the power in the rwd car is being used. the 96 hp to the front in the awd car is not being used nearly as effectively as the rwd car since most of the power in the front wont even be transfered to the ground due to the front wheels not having significant amounts of traction that the rear tires have.
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supras are an exception here! supras have the ****tiest traction of any car in the world and i think everybody knows that. theyve got that crap independent multilink suspension which is just horrible for straight line performance. look at vettes and camaros, they have NO problem putting all their power to the ground effectively.
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Question for Evo Penguin
I should have asked this earlier, are we talking about cars with drag slicks on or performance radials, cause most advantages of AWD are quickly gone with full out drag slicks. I've always assumed we were talking about stock showroom cars.
Last edited by evo_dan; Apr 2, 2002 at 07:14 AM.
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Originally posted by evo penguin
yah i know...ok lets look at it this way say there 2 cars with 300 hp to the wheels. for the awd we will say it has the same awd system as bmws which places 68% of the pwoer to the rear and the other 32 to the front. that means there is 204 wheel horsepower the the rear and 96 to the front. the rwd would have all 300 to the rear. the small lead the awd intitally gets will be quickly overran by the rwd car because all of the power in the rwd car is being used. the 96 hp to the front in the awd car is not being used nearly as effectively as the rwd car since most of the power in the front wont even be transfered to the ground due to the front wheels not having significant amounts of traction that the rear tires have.
yah i know...ok lets look at it this way say there 2 cars with 300 hp to the wheels. for the awd we will say it has the same awd system as bmws which places 68% of the pwoer to the rear and the other 32 to the front. that means there is 204 wheel horsepower the the rear and 96 to the front. the rwd would have all 300 to the rear. the small lead the awd intitally gets will be quickly overran by the rwd car because all of the power in the rwd car is being used. the 96 hp to the front in the awd car is not being used nearly as effectively as the rwd car since most of the power in the front wont even be transfered to the ground due to the front wheels not having significant amounts of traction that the rear tires have.