I'm sorry but the K20 is not your rival, it's a league above you. The RSX-S and the Civic SI come from the factory with more power and a more sporty design, they're not the economy cars that the Lancer is. You can and do compete with other cars in your class like the Mazda3, the Civic, the Cobalt, etc. RRM makes great products, if you're mad at them because they can't turn your economy car into a sports car, the fault is not theirs, it's yours for having unrealistic expectations of your car.

 

We can build internals but not everything performance wise makes sense business wise. That soon may change. Meantime, Lancers modded correctly are quite respectable.

ROAD/RACE

 

Lets see it change, make a change for 09

 

It is up to you the customers to want it bad enough to want t o pay for it, then pay for it, then get it. GET IT.

ROAD/RACE

 

I understand how it works, I just want to see if you guys ever plan on doing the internals, or if I would have to look for a higher classed stock car. I love the lancer and I expected the new design and engine would attract more attention in the car scene, which it did obviously. I am very impressed with your guys work and I plan on making many RRM purchases. Just keep up the good work and I hope you guys plan on going the internal route sometime down the road. I'm not pushing the products as much as I'm pushing the idea since I would like my warranty for at least the first couple years since it is a new engine design and manufactures can't predict every car will turn out the same way without any crazy defects.

You guys rock

 

amby

It may just be me, but you always seem overly eager to jump on the first sign of confrontation. All I have to say is I've been working on cars since I was 14 and even though that's not a long time compared to most, I know enough to have an accurate expectation of my car. I plan on pushing around 300hp which shouldn't be an issue with a 2.4l 168hp N/A car. k20's are only 2.0l with 195hp give or take. K20's push more stock because they have better internals stock.

I don't know how 300hp is unrealistic for a car that dyno'd 222 turbo'd

I don't know how you got me being mad at RRM out of anything I've said here. I'm just trying to make a persuasive argument about something I feel passionate about. Modding a car isn't just slapping an intake and exhaust on your car and calling it good. This wasn't the first car I looked at and if I had the money for insurance I would have gone with a ms3... But logically this was the best out of the class and I plan on pushing it as far as I can. If 300hp doesn't turn out to be achievable down the road than I'll have to make the change. But I'm hoping that I can fully build this car before I move onto my next.

 

I didn't see that Rock said anything on that mani issue. I never stated they would work, As far as I know nothing from the engine can go into a lancer 4b11. I was just stating hypothetically even if you could use the cams it's not like I would be able to anyways. That's all

 

isnt getting us to organize and pre-order then waitin for production alot more complicated than jus actually making it? i mean i believe the demand is high, if not higher once the parts are actually made. this is jus evom...what about the guys who dont track this ish and are jus sittin on their asses waitin for the shops to take the first step?

i really would love to see what this car can do, what its capable of...tradin this car in within these next few years would be like throwing it away, meaning we wont get close to what its actually worth. i know the economy will turn around by 2013 and thats being realistic. if we cant get new internals even by THEN, well...ill do what ill have to, but damn, hooks...come on something more tangable please? lol i mean i dont even feel like takin my car to the track cuz its jus not even worth it! like a bag on my head u know.. anyways i applaud what you've done so far yet givin your capabilities and the potential of the 2.4, put ur dick on the shoulder and get that botox done on them *****

 

This is where rock said they couldnt improve on the design.

 

RRM and other companies have been burned by this in the past, as a rule of thumb, for every 10 people that say they will buy X item, 1 actually will. Buschur had a gong show experience in the Lancer market because everyone said they would buy their products at the drop of a hat and guess what, they had to have a blow out sale and stop making Lancer parts period because no one did, they invested thousands just to have parts sitting on the shelf. RRM made high compression pistons for the 02-06 Lancer and *gasp* 20+ people said they'd buy them and maybe 5 actually did after months. I can see why they are not jumping to make parts based on what people say they will do. As an obvious example, why would RRM make parts based upon a "promise" made by someone who is openly saying they are going to leave the car stock for a year or more? We're not talking about a 40$ part, rods and pistons are around 1000$ each, that's roughly 2000$ for the combo. How many people have 2000$ they can spend right now? Hell, if RRM wanted to, they could simply demand all money upfront but I have a feeling that faced with this, 90% of the people wanting parts will back down instantly, only appearing to complain about how the parts either A. don't exist or B. cost too much. If you want a cheap hobby, take up bird watching, modding cars is expensive.

 

It doesn't matter how long you've been working on cars, you can still be wrong. You drive an economy car, not a performance car. Comparing the K20 to the 4B11/2 is apples to oranges. The highlighted sentence indicates where you are going wrong. the K20 is "better" for a variety of reasons. It can rev higher, runs higher octane and it flows far more air than the 4B11. Honda engines are notorious for this, hell, I've heard the K20 flows better than the Corvette. Mitsubishi engines are a very different beast. NA they're nothing to rave about but they tend to do quite well with boost. As an obvious example of this, name one decent NA Mitsubishi engine that wasn't a V6. Now then, name one good forced induction Honda engine.
Simply saying 300 HP is meaningless, 220 WHP on some dynos could be construed as 300 HP at the crank while on another dyno 260 WHP is construed as 300 HP at the crank.
Anyways, RRM makes great products, I've said this for many years now and I always recommend them to people but they can't do everything. It's not a matter of research or ability or anything like that, it's a matter of financial viability. I don't see why RRM should be expected to go out on a limb "for the good" of the community. They're a business, not your mother, they're not there to tuck you in at night and make you feel better about yourself, they're there to make parts and make money doing it. If they don't see something as a good financial decision, they're not going to do it. No amount of pleading will change this. Rob wasn't born yesterday and he knows how these things go. If people want the parts made, they should consider getting it done themselves. I'm fairly certain Wiseco can and does make custom pistons. They won't be cheap, but you can get them.

 

All I'm trying to get at is whether or not it's a likely situation. I admit I bought the car with high hopes and the past couple months have been an eye opener for me. I originally hoped to boost it to achieve 300whp and I would very much like to reach that still, but as I said it is a high hope and probably won't be achievable seeing how the necessary parts aren't in demand (maybe down the road, idk) but either way I intended on running the lease through and getting a used evoX with saved cash... Than I got to thinking take a 4b11t that n/a pushes 160hp (keep in mind I'm still relatively new to car tuning) and than take a 4b12 and turbo it to make over 300hp... as you can see that could never be the case since the 4b11/t are two separate motors. If I had done my research more thoroughly I would have known that, a novice (noob) mistake. I was planning on tuning it after all just because I wasn't sure if I could afford a gsr but the more I'm finding out the less I like the lancer and the more I want to upgrade to an evo. I have 3 years to scope out my options, but I like to see where the lancer can go anyways.

don't take any of what I put to heart, it was all speculative and based off an ignorant guess.

 

one of the main problems i see with RRM is the pricing, nobody in their right mind is going to spend 5 grand on a turbo and almost 6 after tuning and installing it, its just not reasonable. as i stated before i bought a Greddy T33 tubo kit when i had my supra came with more than the RRM kit comes with and i paid about 3800 shipped. RRM header is 400 bucks most other cars headers run 250-350 at most. they even charge 170 bucks for carbon fiber mirror covers. the problem i dont think is just people backing out its making the product appealing to everyone and at the same time affordable. most cars like the new gen civics,mazdas andive even seen the new mini cooper turbo kits for those cars ive seen as low as 2800 bucks. if RRMs turbo was that price you would have a lot more people willing to buy instead of having to give a kidney with it.

 

Your car has been out for what, a year? It takes more than a year for parts to hit the market, hell, you guys are pretty lucky that a shop like RRM is making parts that aren't just the generic intakes and exhausts that a lot of cars are limited to. A major problem that tuners have is that Mitsubishi made the decision to change the engine after only a year. This means they essentially have to either pick on engine to produce parts for based on which is most popular or make parts for both engines. Neither is a great situation to be in. They can't even go with the 2.0 L motor under the hopes that the parts will be cross-compatible with the Evo because of the compression issue. This means they would literally need to make pistons and I assume rods for the 2008 Lancer and the 2009+ Lancer.
Taking a 160 HP car to 300 HP isn't easy or cheap, you're effectively doubling the HP. What a lot of people don't seem to keep in mind is driveability, so many people just pick a number and chase it even though they have no experience with what that number actually means. It happens all the freakin' time in the Subaru world, someone says they want 300 WHP and they blindly pursue it. 300 WHP is a lot of power, hell, 300 HP is a lot of power. That's more than a stock Evo or STI. It makes for a very quick daily driver and comes with it's own problems. If I had a Lancer, I'd be happy with 230 HP. Give tuners time and maybe they'll start making other parts. In reality 90% of people who say they absolutely need X part don't, they either won't mod the car the way they think they will or they are just picking a number because they saw it in a magazine. RRM offers enough parts to satisfy most people.

 

Lancer people have it so easy and they just don't see it. I didn't see it when I had my Lancer and only now do I appreciate it. 5000$ for a full turbo kit is a ****ing bargain. To help people out, I spent 1000$ just on an exhaust for my car. People are spending 2000$ on just a turbo, no other parts and 800$ on an upgraded top mount intercooler. What's included with RRMs kits? You get the turbo (1000$), intercooler (I'll be conservative with 500$), BOV (200$), wastegate (say 200$), manifold and O2 housing(500$?), all piping (probably another 500$ or more), ECU (lets say 400$), all miscellaneous hoses and wires (maybe 200$) and of course, RRM instructions and service which is priceless. Just with my rudimentary math, we're at 3500$ which doesn't include any labor costs or the research and development that went into making the kit. I wouldn't be surprised if my numbers were way off either. Try and find a turbo kit for the Mazda3, I only know of one company that is making one equivalent to RRMs (Tri-Point Engineering) and it costs 4000$ at an introductory price, it may go up. That's not far off what RRM is charging.
The new Mini comes stock turbo, it's easier to make a kit for a car that has a sibling that is already modified in that manner.