ok so this thread started out abou the sky redline vs the s2000, and now,

it's the Evo vs S2000 again


this thread is going nowhere.....fast.

 

If you are a GT driver, you would understand that although the game lacks the feeling of real road racing, it is very real and accurate if you play it right. Take an Evo through a corner in that game and then tkate an S through that same tight corner or series of corners and will see which one runs through faster. I know. And if the the Sky redline handles as well as either of these two cars, it will be a phenominal drive. In fact, I'm going to got try an testdrive one when I get out of work. I love the looks of the Sky Redline and the fact that it has such a broad powerband.

 

Excuse me? And just how much do you know about me to conclude that I'm not 18? Talk about being cocky, even outside of the evo discussion.

When did I say the power would be a big deal on the s2k? Unlike you, I admit to that the s2k doesn't have much power.

I could not make you understand words, so I told you to go play gt4 to get a sense of the point I'm trying to make. Though it's obviously not completely realistic, the dynamics of racing and how a car handles is very well portrayed. If I told you to go try in real life you'd probably kill yourself. Got a better idea?

Like I said, the s2k's potential is within the drivers hands. The known lap records of an evo and s2k are driven by different people. This is obviously another unfair comparison. Most if not all people who've driven both cars on the same track net better times with the s2k, provided he actually knows how to drive one. And as Whatnoise proved, light modification only widens the gap. If you're going to be dumping 50k into your suspension then I'm not sure of the outcome, but it wouldn't be as significant as you think due to the limits of the chassis of the evo compared to the s2k. You even said youself it was more nimble. ADMIT IT, the reason lap times are faster on the evo side is beacause of your power allowing you to make up the loss in corners on the straights. Take away that power and you will NOT even have a shot at winning. I hate saying these things about evos, but if an evo did not pull on the straights it will NOT gain on the corners.

The fact that even facing that enormous power skilled s2k drivers can still pull a faster time stock just proves the potential in one sentence. I don't have anymore to say. I'm sure you do though.

 

I definitely added my post to simply illustrate an interesting point that the S and Evo are very close in that certain scenario, with a slight edge to the S. But the cars are basically stock on street tires. Keep in mind that's only at one particular track. The S would most likely suffer at Big Willow where higher-power becomes an advantage. I've never personally driven Big Willow … but have watched various cars there. I've driven Streets of Willow in my VIII, but not the S. It's a lot tighter and I can't compare the two cars on that course either.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that it's easier to up performance in the Evo. I prefer the balanced feel of the S as well as its tendency to oversteer, instead of understeering like the Evo. So with my IX, I opted to go with a Robispec setup … KW Variant 3s, along with bushings, anti-bumpsteer kit, rear sway, corner-weighting, yada, yada. The car feels excellent. Kudos to Dr. Fuller! It's much more neutral and similar to the S. I haven't been able to run the configuration that I spoke of earlier. There's been an extension added to the track to take it to 3.5 miles from 2.2. Every time I've had a chance to go, it's been the longer configuratioin. I'd like to run the 2.2 mile course on the Advans to see my difference in times compared to the other 2 cars.

 

gosh every time you reply i have to point out something that you say that is basically contradictory. i never said power was a big deal, you're the one talkin' about power and how the evo has more blahblahblah.

the evo has no chasis limits, look at the extent of modifications that have been made to it... the ultimate potential of the evo is greater. period.

the reason the lap times are better is because the car is faster EVERYWHERE. it can house bigger tires, it can house bigger power it can house more elaborate suspension and it HOUSES bigger brakes. that's how you make a car fast. period.

take away the power and it doesn't have a shot at winning? how about we take away the awd too... why don't we just race different cars than what we're talkin' about and we can have a totally irrelevant discussion as we already have. the car came that way, you can make it better, both of them. which one is best in the end. lap times tell the answer. go ahead, add the turbo to the s2k. super charge it, wide body it. who's faster?

 

I used to have an S2000. Loved the car but hated the fact that while sitting in traffic and in most day to day situations, I had the same torque and power on tap as a civic.

 

Wow, couldn't have said it better. This has been our point all along, but the S2000 people always try to divert and cloud the issue with BS.

 

Do you know why I keep saying the evo has more power? I'm merely stating a fact, do you have a problem with that too? Or would you rather prefer me to argue the s2k has more power? You're saying the evo is faster anywhere and everywhere, I'm saying the REASON for that is because when novice drivers drive both cars the evo will be easier to drive. Especially when they jump into a s2k which will oversteer if you drive the same way you drove the evo, of course they will favor the evo.

God this is what I hate about a particular car forum, nobody wants to speak negative things about their car. Same thing with s2k forums, so don't think I'm making this one sided. I admit to faults, I think you should as well.

Evos are not faster in the corners than s2000s, that is the end of discussion on that topic. Please go track/watch someone experienced track an evo and a s2000 on the same day, tell me which car has faster exit speeds. Btw please don't compare a modded evo against a stock s2k. Do them both stock or both modded equally. This is also the reason why the Lotuses make both the s2k and evo seem like a boat in the water.

I've said it once and I will say it again, your only backup behind your statement "the evo is faster everywhere" is the POWER the evo has. This once again leads to my statement that rwd handles better than awd. Awd wins on courses it can fully use it's advantage, which is the power and grip.

You've said some things that are valid in this topic, but that is pushing it. No chassis limits? Everything has chassis limits, and the evo has a limit higher than the s2000. This means there comes to a point where if we were just talking suspension capabilities alone, the evo cannot be modded to surpass a s2000 in that category. The "extent" of modifications done on most evos is a setup where power modification highly exceeds suspension modification. And obviously it will put a big smile on the driver's face, but it doesn't mean it's a corner monster now.

Of course it does. I'm not being sarcastic. The s2k is a slow piece of crap unless you're constantly revving it.
These comments are meaningless. We KNOW the s2k doesn't have as much power as the evo stock.

I'm sick of all this confusing argument. I wouldn't say random things just to defend the s2000. I would go buy an evo instead if I'm not true to my own statements. I'm not naive enough to make empty statements just to sound cool.

Oh please why must you always take everything so personally. Even after everything I've said about the s2000s HANDLING ADVANTAGES, you still like to bring up power comparisons. I don't blame you, owning an evo means going fast. I also don't blame you for being oblivious to the actual potential of a s2000 in a good driver's hands. The answer isn't something I can say so easily. There's so many factors involved that there will never be a definite answer. Even professional drivers learn things about the car they drive every race, and how hard they can push it. I remember years ago when ae86s became popular for tuning, and when the drivers claimed they can beat skylines with their old *** corolla, everybody laughed. I laughed with them, until it was proven. Power isn't going to win you everything. Heavier awds don't win lighter rwds on a track with numerous turns. They win on tracks that allow them to use their power and grip. All depends on the track.

Sorry to edit so much, but here's a video demonstrating what I mean.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EFvI8B6nU84
Ignore the stupid story, but the race was very real.
Here's another batch of many cars going at it. Funny how the s2000 is one of the lowest outputting car of the group and yet still keeps up. How come the boxster can't do it? Give the s2000 the credit it deserves man.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ozvR3UFbkLA
You can also see the toll one little mistake takes. I especially love the end when the ae86 takes on the skyline in a real mountain. Same scenario I'd imagine if you replaced the skyline with an evo.

 

dude... the evo is faster AT THE TRACK, ULTIMATELY. please read taht a few times as that's what i've been saying all along. both cars with same level of modification, YES PLEASE, do 'em bOTH TO THE LIMIT. see who wins. thanks.

i do watch them race the same day same track same japanese professionals on a same twisty single straight track. who wins....... hit me wtih the answer tougemonster.

you tell me to look at exit speeds where the s2k is supposedly higher and then tell me that the evo has more power... well WHO SHOULD HAVE THE HIGHER EXIT SPEED. you ****in' idiot, if you're so damn smart you should know that a balanced rear wheel drive car has faster STEADY STATE cornering speed but that the awd car has the faster exit speed because of....... OH GRIP that thing you swear the s2k has TONS Of.... i swear you don't know more than me kid.

dude... tell me that eiji yamada doesn't have a fat smile on his face when he's pulling close to 2 g's at any track in japan or america running the crooked legged 4 degrees of static camber on the cyberevo.

i'm sick of YOUR confusing arguement cuz the confusion comes FROM YOU contradicting yourself with half assed knowledge. i HATE evo owners but i gotta say i hate your stupid *** more. evo owners are some of the most blind, ignoring REAL race cars like the porsche gt3 and the corvette c6r, but you sir.... surpass most evo idiocy which is hard to do cuz we got a huge ****in' pool of idiots here.

you wanna know why i bring up the power... cuz that's your big bag of **** talk on the evo. if you wanna see how good the evo is... GIVE THE S2K THE POWER AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. oh... lack of traction??? awww wah wah wah cry for me please. reality happens.

ae86 vs skyline... is that a joke. put them on a track tougemonster... see who wins. equal drivers the skyline wins... too bad they always put tsuchiya in the 86 and some noob in the skyline.

once again like a true s2k fan boi you'll shrink the test comparison circuit until you win. next time you'll shrink it to autocross size. and the other cars can't do it cuz of weight. in that case shifter karts for the win.

 

I won't even quote you, because apparently you can't keep your mouth clean with the right grammar and still speak words. Knowledge is one thing, maturity is another. When reading your post both are arguable.

Oh and you're wrong. When I say exit speed I mean the speed you're supposed to check BEFORE you get on the gas again. And in that case the s2000 has been proven many times to be superior. Evos are amazing cars, but they aren't batmobiles.

You seem to have plenty of logic. So without saying **** every sentence, think this through:

Does grip mean faster turning? I've been thinking, and to me grip means how well the car stays to the ground, NOT the speed it can tackle a turn. I think you're bringing up power not because I'm speaking bad things about it, it's because that's your home base you run back to. I'm confused by your statement concerning "real" sports cars. There's different classes of sports cars, those cars aren't in the class evo's are, rendering them irrelevant in all comparisons with evos. Spend another 30k on the evo and you've got something even better.

Expected as a response from you, you always use power to back you up when you realize arguing about handling won't get you anywhere. When you proudly say with "equal" modification, does stock count? Find a person who has both cars stock and do that comparison you'd love to do. Quite honestly, I'm pretty much done saying what I've need to say. I'm just repeating it in different words.

Even if you think you are right, talk in a civilized manner and act your age, "kid". Right now I feel like I'm talking to a 12 year old that knows quite a bit about cars, but can't stand to be wrong.

 

I have a question. Which one would win stock for stock in Tsukuba? The Evo or the S2000? Both cars will be driven by the same driver that is both good in taking advantage of both cars abilities?

 

We can't be sure, lap times there are held by modified cars. I won't say things I don't know about. I won't make the s2k sound like the god of cars, so I will say this: The s2000 is capable of doing faster times than evos on practically any course if it's stock vs stock, but it doesn't happen very often unless the driver is one heck of a good driver, especially if the evo driver is good as well. S2000s will frustrate evo drivers if they can't drive it right, because it will NOT stay in line.

Understeering has always been an issue with awds, but to correct that they only need to correct their angle and floor it again. Not the same deal with rwds, they wobble and often oversteer whenever you manage the gas OR brake poorly in a turn, which is why it requires a better driver to be fast.

 

evo always wins at tsukuba, they've had best motorings with every combo of cars.

seriously hellspare pwns all... he wins the internet. i won't even beg the question of how stupid it is to call exit speed before you get on the gas hahaha.

and your lopsided phsyics is stupid. grip means staying on the ground which translates into fast turning c'mon man... more grip means harder turn in. more grip means faster track out more grip means faster steady state speed. different cars have different shining points within the turn where they hold it best this is from weight distro and suspension geometry. shot for shot an awd car can try to be like a rear wheel drive car plus have the added grip of all 4 wheels sometimes. the only other variable for ultimate supercardom is midship or midengine.

you know what's hilarious... every s2k owner will say that it takes an advanced driver to get the most out of the s2k and every owner that has had both cars says that the s2k is better..... why do i somehow doubt that all those owners are advanced in skill enough to "get the most" out of the s2k... isnt' there something dubious about that proof you keep going back to. i'm done with this stupidity... curse words or not you're seriously dumb and i keep calling you an 18 year old because you've shown no critical thinking skills beyond such an age group.

you think i can't talk handling... try knowing what a traction circle is first. then ascertaining the concept of grip and how that affects performance. until then don't even speak.

 

you know what i find hilarious... i've seen through every move that you've made. i called you a lil tougemonster starting how many replies ago? adn then you go and post the tougemonster video... hilarious.

i told you that all s2k owners will just try to shrink the track size until they win.

i told you that as far as ultimate potential goes there's no competition.

and then you go and make blunders like calling the exit speed before you get on the gas... well that would be before the apex then huh... so wouldn't that be entry speed??? cuz you should be on the gas after the apex........... if you know anything about car dynamics that is.

there's raw facts out there with raw numbers that say the evo wins and you just wanna talk about horsepower so why don't you up the horsies of the s2k? why would you demote the evo? cuz your car can't hang? as the translator for iron chef and hot version international says... it's ova.

 

You've been taking some really weak turns if you can gas on at apex, especially in an evo. You obviously don't know that in a s2000, if you fully gas at apex your car will slidddddddde. But of course, it's not a turn without using your power to pull you through when you make a mistake. /sarcasm. To actually test the handling characteristics of both cars, you need to not touch the gas pedal and see which car can take a turn the fastest without sliding out. The most unbiased speed reading is BEFORE you get on the gas, or do you need to be able to use your power otherwise it's not fair? You're contradicting yourself because I already said the evo has more power, now we aren't talking about power anymore, just purely handling. I'm done, you obviously won't admit a thing of fault, and I'm not going to alter my thinking to accomodate your nonsense. Our words could be both incorrect for all we know.

What I find amazing is how you go around the main point of discussion every single post, and attempt to point out something stupid I did. That alone shows your disability to debate and still stay on topic. You will never admit it, even if you are wrong. Admit that. Don't even bring up my thinking skills if you can't bring it up using correct grammar and blank assumptions.

With comments like these containing absolutely no in depth first hand experience, I'm done with this thread. Nice talking though.

If you decide to not accept leaving this thread, base your arguments on this statement, and not things that don't matter:

The s2000 can go through turns faster than evos. The more turns on a track, the more it favors the s2000. Bring me some evidence on that subject if you are going to disagree, otherwise don't post anymore.