I think it was some K series motor that produced 600whp on the stock motor. That's the same as a stock 4g63 can handle at maximum.

 

The block argument is kind of lame. At this point, it's all speculation. The 4G63 can handle big power, sure. Who really cares if the 4B11 cannot hanlde 1,000 hp? Most guys wind up somewhere in the 3-500 range. Only drag racers care about rediculous amounts of power. For drag racing, I'm not sure that I would buy a X. Or an VIII or IX for that matter. For TA or autoX, then I definately would. So as a X owner, i'm throwing the high hp figure out the window because the 4B11 is still in progress. I think a viable argument at this point in time would be somthing like stock vs stock, or 400 whp vs 400whp.

Pro's of the 4B11

Aluminum - weight saving
Mitsu increased durability of the aluminum with four bolt mains, used a semi-closed deck design, and added extra-reinforced ribs in the aluminum casting
Better flowing head
No balancer shaft
Square 86.0mm bore and 86.0mm stroke
Increased compression ratio (minor .2)
Mivec on intake and exhaust cams
Direct acting valvetrain
Timing chain
Stronger internals

Pro's of the 4G63

Robust Cast Iron block
Good track record of high hp reliability

I guess if you're into building the highest HP evo out there, then the 4G63 would be the way to go at this point in time. But out of the box, the 4B11 is superior. And I'll even dare to say that it will most likely remain the better motor up to the uncertain breaking / warping point of the aluminum (If there even is one). Just from tuning the stock motor, TTP got around 80 hp out of the 4B. No EMS or standalone either.

 

The block argument is kind of lame...the 4G63 without a doubt will be able to hold together at high power more reliably...thats not even an argument really. However, if the 4B11 can hold a decent amount of power reliably, lets say 500-600 whp, it will make most road racers very happy, until they realize they are driving an overweight bus that will never be able to beat any record setting CT9A track times Joking joking! I agree, out of the box, the 4B11 definitely seems like it could be a much better engine, but when we start talking about super high specific output...thats an entirely different story.

 

testing a jdm 7 with ayc vs. a usdm 8 is not a fair comparison. Im thinking more like two jdm evos one with ayc and one without dynoed back to back same mods.

 

I don't know why there is all this controversy over the ayc...it doesn't add much weight, and it indeed helps with increasing overall cornering capacity. I'd say it the total overall increase in weight for the unit is maybe 30lbs total over a regular viscous LSD. The weight that is added is also in the most favorable place possible, on the bottom of the rear of the car. The only problem is that with a really highly modified evo making lots of power, they tend to break pretty easily (at least in previous models, I'm not sure about the X yet). AYC is a very good thing to have in a car, especially one that is AWD. In terms of suspension/chassis and the AWD drivetrain, the X is far superior to to previous models. In terms of engine capability, overall curb weight, and center of gravity, maybe not so much.

 

sorry double post

 

At least compare it to an SR20 and not a freaking boxer motor. I think you're downplaying it. While I agree 600-700whp will not be something it will do in the long term, 400whp will be (and already is) cake. I've also seen more than a few 450whp Evo VIIIs crack those junky stock pistons, so don't act like it can't happen.

 

He won't listen man, don't even bother.

 

All of us are just contributing opinions. He does have a point. And he is one of the few CT9A guys on here not in denial about SAYC, so he gets kudos in my book!

 

Yeah but there's a little bit off 4g63 fanboyism showing in some of his posts and he's bordering on 4b11 bashing. Me no likey...

 

I won't pit my car against any equally modded IX in a straight line.
Everyone can have an opinion mang!

 

I'm not here to bash the 4B11. I'm here to remind everyone that the 4B11 will not make big power, and no one should have any delusions about it ever doing so without booku amounts custom block modification. The 4B11 in my opinion will be awesome for a turbo aluminum 4 cylinder, it has many revisions over the 4G63 that indeed make it better ( solid lifters, timing chain, etc.) and this shows on the dyno when making power out of the stock engine. The stock 4B11 without a doubt performs better than the stock 4G63. All I'm saying is, when it comes to the higher end of the power spectrum, the new evo owners will envy 4G63 power and the humongous aftermarket that comes with it (especially when it comes to drag racing and very high horsepower circuit racers). My biggest complaint about the evo X:

Why did mitsubishi make the lighter engine only to increase the total overall weight of the car? What I think would be interesting is if someone swapped a 4B11 & the new X drivetrain into a CT9A chassis and then got it to boost 500whp reliably (if thats possible) to save weight on a track car. This might give some of the time attack guys an edge when trying to compete with the likes of HKS & AMS. Sounds pretty blasphemous but does anyone know if the dimensions of the new 4B11 with tranny + transfer case will fit past the 7/8/9 front subframe? I am a huge fan of the X's highly advanced drivetrain but I'm not so big on the heavier and taller school bus like chassis. Can you imagine a lighter CT9A widebody time attack car with S-AWC? It would probably devastate track records everywhere.

Oh and I'm not trying to bash the X either, I think overall its still the fastest car you can buy under 40k period. I just enjoy highlighting the real strength and weaknesses of different platforms, and what can be done to improve both. Does anyone know how much weight can be taken out of the X? Maybe when totally stripped down, it won't weigh much more than the CT9A, but I am not sure...

 

Look, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you anymore after this but if you think that the 4b11 won't make big power you need to do some research on aluminum block design. The real weakpoint of the block in any car are the sleeves warping (usually only an issue in open deck designs) and the head coming off from excessive cylinder pressures due to extreme boost and the block losing it's rigidity and warping, which even iron isn't immune to. Sure, it's more resistant to it, but damage is damage.

To show that aluminum blocks are not weak or unsuitable for big power in a small displacement, boosted applications here is a good example: GM did a test on their ecotec engine and found the stock block and sleeves to be good for 700 hp with just simple upgraded internals. Honda B series motors have been known to do the same. Are you really gonna sit here and tell me that the 4b11 isn't a better engine than those two? Your only response to this so far has been some ignorant claim that after a few passes they fall apart, which is not the case.

Along with a good tune to keep detonation at bay, the main aspects of making big power reliably are strong forged internals and upgraded head studs combined with a good metal gasket to keep the head securely fastened to the block. It doesn't matter if it's iron or aluminum, if the head comes off under big boost and high pressures then the structural rigidity of the block is compromised. Sure aluminum will warp wprse than iron, but it's a moot point. It's like saying that one dead guy is more dead than another.

Although the capping point of the 4b11 will probably be around 700 hp before more major work is required, who cares? 4G63's have to be crazy engineered to make 1000 hp anyway. You act like all you have to do is put on a massive turbo and the block takes care of everything else, and that's not true at all. 1000 HP evos are stupid anyway as there are much better platforms for drag racing and the evo is meant to be a road race car. For a road race or time attack setup, around 500 whp is more than enough and this motor will handle that no problem.

Hell, it's already being done with no problems on completely stock pistons and rods, which is something that the 4g63 can't quite match (reliably, at least). You may have the stronger factory block, but we have the stronger factory internals. There are strong points and weak points of both motor designs, and you need to get off your pedestal and stop trying to downplay a motor that you clearly haven't done much research on. They are both great in their own right and both will make big power, not just your's.

 

I never really had a problem with the X's engine. In fact, I think it's wonderfully engineered and a fantastic engine... However, I prefer the more manic 4g63.
But, as someone who will never want more than 400whp, it's not like both aren't up for the task.
And like I was saying earlier, how can one engine actually be superior to another? There are so many factors other than the ability to produce horsepower. Does the fact that the N54 (the 335i's engine) produces the same amount of power than the 4b11 with two more cylinders and one more turbo make it a "worse" engine than the 4b? Honestly, who's to say?

I will never have over 400whp. Both engines can make the same amount of power. So, two engines, producing the same amount of power: One's lighter, the other is in a lighter car. Both are, for the most part, equally gas efficient. Torque figures have been similar, from what I've seen. Isn't it just a question of preference?

I don't care that one is aluminum and one is 20 years old. I don't care about the ease of the 4b to produce power (which is countered by the weight of the car anyway). The arguments that mod for mod the 4b will produce more power are true, but useless. Who here mods their Evo by the number of modifications they will make rather than the horsepower goal they have? There are monetary restrictions, but when you include the prices of the cars themselves those figures are a wash. And it also leads back to the same argument of buying a cheap car and modding the crap out of it.

These arguments are meaningless. I want to see are real people and their Evo's on the track racing each other. It shouldn't matter that THE evo ix is or is not better than THE evo x. All that should matter is whether YOUR evo is faster than the other's. Discounting driver, since the thread's topic is focused on the cars.

 

Heres the thing though what if IX had a AFR as rich as the X? I think a lot of the 4b producing more power mod for mod have a lot to do with fixing a very rich and poor factory tune.