well naturally if both cars in stock form are close in performance the one thats modded will" CLOWN" the other but if they were both modded then the Evo may just get "clowned"

 

I don't think so - the STi's suspension flaws would just become more noticeable as speeds increase...

 

I know this is an EVO forum so alot of opinions are going to be biased. As far as the STi motor, the same guy that designed this motor has been doing it for 25 years for subaru. He knows there motors pretty darn well. And Shiv is already proving that this motor has tons of potential. He is getting CRAZY horsepower with just and exhaust and ecu tune.

 

Once again, I'll stick with this. Of course an STi with a suspension upgrade is a different story, but stock, it wallows a lot.

 

I doubt that it handles like crap or is "soft", but it just does not handle as well as an EVO.

 

If you are serious, then you really are the one that is biased and misinformed. Isn't Shiv getting similar gains with his xhaust and ecu for the STI as opposed to most stage 1 setups that other tuners sell for the Evo? What is so crazy about that? Please come down to earth. The STI is a great car with a potentially great motor and way SWEETER looking body kits like the Chargespeed kit (for now). But cmon now...even most STI owners know which car is better mod for mod right now. The general consensus from STI owners has been,

"Give us some time to catch up. We are dealing with a new motor and a new setup verses the Evo's proven setup which has years of r&d behind it."

I'm not being biased, I'm being realistic. I'm not sure why anyone would choose the STI at this point in time. I don't like paying $30k to be a guinea pig for a couple of years. I rather play with my evo and wait for the "next best thing". As time passes and as more tuners start to unlock the true potential of the STI's package, maybe the STI will be the king of the hillv after very expensive NEW upgrades. ..But right now and in the near future you really gotta wake up and smell the coffee buddy. Your CRAZY HORSEPOWER stock sti with xhaust and ecu tune will be embarrased by the CRAZY HORSEPOWER evos all around the country right now.

 

On our dyno, both the factory STi turbo and the factory EVO turbo run out of steam at about the same power level. So as far as exhaust + ECU tuning goes, they aren't so far a apart in max HP. But torque is another story. The STi whallups the EVO in that department. And when upgraded turbos are thrown into the mix, I suspect the performane differential is going to grow sustantially. Both in terms of output and boost response/drivability. VVT and 0.5L extra displacement provides the STi with a massive advantage when it comes to engine performance.

Handling, brakes, chassis dynamics, etc,. are another story, IMHO.

Just my 2c,
shiv

 

worth more like $20.00

 

hey shiv...any plans to stroke the evo? get some more displacement?

 

I totally agree.
I'm no tuner so you should know better... but from everything I've read and seen...I feel the same way as you. When upgraded turbo kits and a good upgrade path is developed for the STI, I might even end up with an sti in a couple of years. I think they have crazy potential as well.

But my questions is: There are enough 300, 350, 400, 450, 500+whp evos that still have what is considered basic mods and maybe a mild turbo upgrade. But where are these mystical upgraded turbo kits for the sti's right now? I assume they are on the drawing board still? Still R&D? Even you as a tuner are currently still stuck playing around with the stock turbo setup am I correct? Which stems back to what I said:

"Give us some time to catch up. We are dealing with a new motor and a new setup verses the Evo's proven setup which has years of r&d behind it."

I have a feeling it is only a matter of time before you see some super fast sti's ...but by the time these kits make it to the average joe schmoe sti owner (and priced reasonably), I will have had my fun modding my evo and have moved on to the "next best thing" (which might possibly be an sti)

again..my point is not that the sti doesn't have the potential to be a monster.....its just that you can't beat 350+whp evos with a lot of "potential under the hood"

-B

 

lame sti interior.....

however, i will say the regular wrx is amazing for the money. If your going to spend that much might as well get an EVO.

 

I'll agree with that.

 

BTW, the Evo handles for crap, too. Try it out and watch how soft it is and how much it rolls. Too hard to find out on the street...

The STi is worse. Both of them need a good set of coilovers and upgraded anti-roll bars.

 

Typicall Evo owner. The STi has a narrower wheel base, on narrower tires, and provides a more stable ride over a variety of road surfaces yet ONLY gives up a few 1/100th's of a g on a skidpad, and maybe 1 mph in a slalom.

Those facts alone prove to most thinking people that the STi suspension is superior. It is definately more versatile than the rather one dimensional Evo.

Its "flaws" were not more noticable when the SCC tested STi beat the Evo 0-60, 1/4 mile, and OH YEAH! around a track.

Most STi owners will tell you that the STi provides more tools to the driver to help accomplish high speeds in a variety of ways, therfore, a competent driver will be able to get more out of what the STi provides, while other, more simple minded drivers, may find it intimidating. A quick ratio steering is nice, but "feeling" fast, and being fast are two different things.

It's just a sad argument to say you bought a car for ultimate mod potential. Most people won't put more than a few grand in mods, if that, and so far both cars seem to respond the same, which leaves owners with basically the same difference. So unless you plan on doing $15K and up in mods, and need a specific platform to do it, then quit using that cop out please!

 

First off, most of the basis for my subjective opinion comes from experienced autocrossers, road racers and driving instructors. I don't base my opinion on the "My Evo is cooler" argument. In fact, I was a die-hard Subaru fan. When I left the LA Auto Show in January, it was with the Subaru STi booklet, not the Evo booklet. What changed? Well, when EVERY review I read took the Evo over the STi on the basis of handling and steering feel, I started to believe it. I had an S2000 before the Evo, so I know a little bit about cars that handle. Anyway, I knew a power deficit was a lot easier to overcome than any handling deficit. I don't know where you came up with your $15K number, but I am slapping STis now with about $2500 in power adds - ironically about the same amount of money an STi owner would spend on the absent radio and higher sticker of an STi. Believe me, if Subaru had come with a REAL STi (ie JDM-spec suspension, 2.0L motor, etc.), I would have purchased one. The Evo more closely fit what I was looking for. I am not the "typical Evo owner", unless the typical Evo owner happens to be well-read, does his/her research, appreciates supercar level agility and handling, and doesn't want to compromise with an unproven motor. If that's the case, then count me in as "typical".

Oh, and I do like the STi - no kidding.