Focus RS
Aug 19, 2016, 02:21 PM
#4516
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Is that really all its about? Seems silly IMO given that wheels studs arent very expensive nor are standard lug nuts. But I suppose multiplied by however many hundreds of thousands needed it adds up.
Aren't studs a stronger connection? I remember something about this argument for why head studs vs head bolts...something about with a stud you bolt it in and then as you tighten the nut it squeezes everything together vs wiht a bolt all the stress is on the threads that engage the bolt? I dont remember exactly how its stated but I think if I had a bimmer one of my first mods would be some ARP wheel studs.
Aren't studs a stronger connection? I remember something about this argument for why head studs vs head bolts...something about with a stud you bolt it in and then as you tighten the nut it squeezes everything together vs wiht a bolt all the stress is on the threads that engage the bolt? I dont remember exactly how its stated but I think if I had a bimmer one of my first mods would be some ARP wheel studs.
Studs are stronger. But once the wheel is torqued, the studs aren't holding the wheel on the car, the friction of the mounting surface is. So, as long as bolts provide the needed clamping force, they work fine.
Aug 19, 2016, 02:35 PM
#4517
Yes, agreed it certainly adds up. And yes, the hub and face of the wheel are whats doing the holding. So say you have wheel bolts torqued to 90 ft/lbs and lug nuts torqued to 90 ft/lbs. Is that the same clamping force? Yes, its the same amount of energy or force applied to the fastener but does one have more clamping force than the other? I'd think so but can't fathom the physics behind it...
Aug 19, 2016, 03:15 PM
#4518
EvoM Community Team Leader
BMW has been using wheel bolts forever, this could just be a designed and assembled in germany kind of thing.
Aug 19, 2016, 03:18 PM
#4519
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by heel2toe
Yes, agreed it certainly adds up. And yes, the hub and face of the wheel are whats doing the holding. So say you have wheel bolts torqued to 90 ft/lbs and lug nuts torqued to 90 ft/lbs. Is that the same clamping force? Yes, its the same amount of energy or force applied to the fastener but does one have more clamping force than the other? I'd think so but can't fathom the physics behind it...
Aug 19, 2016, 04:34 PM
#4520
That video really pumped me up.
How strange that one review says the car pushes like nobody's business (which I can believe given the reasoning behind hit) yet Hanz... or Franz (?) says it bites and turns in like crazy.
I prefer head studs only in case I have to pull stuff apart in the future. I am too cheap to keep buying head bolts LOL. Otherwise, I imagine one is as strong as the other. Again, I'm no engineer.
As for which is more effective at a given torque: whether the stress is on the threads of the stud/nut or bolt/block, I don't see much difference. Well, not enough to matter, that is.
How strange that one review says the car pushes like nobody's business (which I can believe given the reasoning behind hit) yet Hanz... or Franz (?) says it bites and turns in like crazy.
Is that really all its about? Seems silly IMO given that wheels studs arent very expensive nor are standard lug nuts. But I suppose multiplied by however many hundreds of thousands needed it adds up.
Aren't studs a stronger connection? I remember something about this argument for why head studs vs head bolts...something about with a stud you bolt it in and then as you tighten the nut it squeezes everything together vs wiht a bolt all the stress is on the threads that engage the bolt? I dont remember exactly how its stated but I think if I had a bimmer one of my first mods would be some ARP wheel studs.
Aren't studs a stronger connection? I remember something about this argument for why head studs vs head bolts...something about with a stud you bolt it in and then as you tighten the nut it squeezes everything together vs wiht a bolt all the stress is on the threads that engage the bolt? I dont remember exactly how its stated but I think if I had a bimmer one of my first mods would be some ARP wheel studs.
As for which is more effective at a given torque: whether the stress is on the threads of the stud/nut or bolt/block, I don't see much difference. Well, not enough to matter, that is.
Aug 19, 2016, 04:46 PM
#4521
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Head studs/bolts are a bit different because of how long they are. Bolts can twist over the length of the shank, which can cause them to under torque. This is/should be accounted for in a properly engineered system. Lug bolts are so short they aren't as greatly effected by this.
Aug 19, 2016, 05:42 PM
#4522
Head studs/bolts are a bit different because of how long they are. Bolts can twist over the length of the shank, which can cause them to under torque. This is/should be accounted for in a properly engineered system. Lug bolts are so short they aren't as greatly effected by this.
Aug 19, 2016, 11:46 PM
#4523
And the fact that it's a bone stock car also has me more inclined to believe understeer is a thing at the limit. Ford knows most customers won't push it all that hard, and the ones that do (regular track rats), will modify the car...
The following 2 users liked this post by WarmMilk:
alpinaturbo (Aug 20, 2016),
Robevo RS (Aug 20, 2016)
Aug 20, 2016, 09:48 AM
#4525
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
I think it's a matter of how hard you're pushing the car... If you drive the car at 7/10 (IMHO even that's optimistic for your average journalist), it's gonna bite and turn like crazy. But if you go out and push it 10-11/10's, the short comings of the chassis are gonna come out... And I for one will take the word of a guy that runs a track/race prep shop and has reset many NASA TT records over some journalist.
And the fact that it's a bone stock car also has me more inclined to believe understeer is a thing at the limit. Ford knows most customers won't push it all that hard, and the ones that do (regular track rats), will modify the car...
And the fact that it's a bone stock car also has me more inclined to believe understeer is a thing at the limit. Ford knows most customers won't push it all that hard, and the ones that do (regular track rats), will modify the car...
Aug 20, 2016, 09:53 AM
#4526
Evolved Member
It might also have to do with stress on the system with his left-foot braking? That extra drag on the rear just might cause the system to say danger, danger and preemptively shut down.
Aug 20, 2016, 09:59 AM
#4527
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
If AWD is engaged, the rear is being over driven so you would not expect consistent understeer. Unless the system is not engaging as much as you would think.
It might also have to do with stress on the system with his left-foot braking? That extra drag on the rear just might cause the system to say danger, danger and preemptively shut down.
It might also have to do with stress on the system with his left-foot braking? That extra drag on the rear just might cause the system to say danger, danger and preemptively shut down.
Aug 20, 2016, 10:00 AM
#4528
About the car itself, mopar brings up a good point below. It could be that the RDU was overheating and becoming FWD quick with the Vorshlag guy and that was causing the bad oversteer, could be that it's a lot better when all systems are working...
If AWD is engaged, the rear is being over driven so you would not expect consistent understeer. Unless the system is not engaging as much as you would think.
It might also have to do with stress on the system with his left-foot braking? That extra drag on the rear just might cause the system to say danger, danger and preemptively shut down.
It might also have to do with stress on the system with his left-foot braking? That extra drag on the rear just might cause the system to say danger, danger and preemptively shut down.
Aug 20, 2016, 10:39 AM
#4530
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
No, I have an 05, it handled pretty good stock. Even better with the diff restack. I would love a stocker for a daily...lol