Warrtalon, I think the issue that I have at this moment is that you assume a great many things and then talk down at people. I for one would be much less likely to find your thoughts offensive if you would simply choose to make your points in a more polite and considerate way.

To address the above issues however... I have a CG lock. You assume I did not but I can send you pics of it in my car and a copy of the invoice from Apex.

Harness bars will in fact be less safe for a person riding in the back. This played no role in my thoughts as I am primarily concerned with safety of myself and anyone with me at speed. The bar can be more easily removed when not at the track however and this is an added plus in my mind. If we are talking safety of those in the back, I think OEM is the way to go.

Next, you take off and talk trash and make as if I am the only person who has not clue. What a load of house $#!t that is. Not only do I make a full post in a polite manor to point out what I feel the issues to be and actually provide reasoning and evidence of such and you just make a quick statement and proclaim common knowledge and are done with it... common indeed.

 

To the OP: what you should be investigating is a set of Schroth harnesses. No need for a harness bar or a roll over bar.

To the rest here ... a couple of points that I have not seen raised yet:

1.) Helmet - if you still have the airbags, you should be using an open-face helmet. Airbag deploying into a closed face helmet can be very bad news.

2.) 4 point harness - the main problem with 4-point harness systems is that they cannot prevent submarining. AFAIK, Schroth is the only 4-point harness that addresses this.

l8r)

 

Dsycks, if you have a CG lock, then you should not be tossing around like you claim. I run blisteringly fast laps in my Evo with the CG lock, and I do not flop around. The difference from nothing to the CG lock was dramatic.

 

The problem isn't the type of harness being used, it's the fact it's a harness. What really matters is where and how you're going to use it. if you want a track or street setup (ie. high speeds, relatively high chance of rollover) you want a roll bar. If all you're doing is autocrossing and doing plan on using or having the harnesses installed at any other time, a harness bar or just straight harnesses are fine.
FYI, I have a schroth harness available if someone wants it. I bought it before I knew the dangers and it just didn't fit my needs. It's a 4-point rallycross (I believe) with ASM.

 

Warrtalon, where can you get a CG lock?

 

wow, thats just a bad idea....

 

do it right if you gonna put harnesses and a cage in your car...

 

CG-Lock Performance Add-on for your Seat belt

Luckily, when doing my research on what harness to get for this race season, I learned about the dangers of running a harness without rollover protection, so I got the CG Lock. If I was only autocrossing, then I would get a harness and harness bar that would only be used during the autocrosses.

 

+1 for the CG Lock...simple to install and does a great job of keeping you planted in the seat.

Here's a video on how to install the lock followed by an in-car video for a before and after comparison with the CG-Lock.

http://videos.hspn.com/?videoid=40&catid=1

 

This is simply not correct. A harness bar combined with non-ASM 4-point harnesses are not safe, since a frontal impact can cause the occupant to submarine out from under the belt. Nor does a roll bar have any place in a street vehicle, unless you plan on wearing a helmet all the time. Safety systems are designed to work together. Any modification needs to take into account the _entire_ system, not just one component.

l8r)

 

Ludikraut, he said that a harness bar and harness should only be used during an autox and not at any other time. He is selling his ASM 4pt, because of this.

 

Exactly, after reading up on the safety of harnesses I decided it wasn't worth the risk and took the harness out. For someone who only wants harnesses for autocrossing, a harness bar and any harness would be fine since the risk of any kind of crash is low because speeds are generally low. For a street car I wouldn't want any kind of harness, ASM equipped or not. A roll bar can be safe for a street car if it's only a 4-point, the entire bar is behind the driver and thus isn't a problem in regards to impact. I might go with a roll bar one day, but even if I did I'd only use harnesses on the track.

 

Still too risky for me with a non-ASM 4-point harness. And I still contend that any kind of roll bar has no place in a 4-door/4-passenger street car, unless you don't mind giving up the back seat - convertibles excepted. IMO the order of upgrades goes: CG-Lock > 4-point ASM > full cage with supporting accessories (fixed back seat, no airbags, 5-pt. harness, etc.).

l8r)

 

Well, again, he was talking about an ASM 4-pt (which he's selling anyway), and he's not talking about using the back seat with the roll bar. I think we agree on the major points.

 

This is a delema we are going through with the project car. We are going a more track oriented route for the car, but need to retain the ability to drive it on the street occasionally. For several of the race we want to be in, we need a roll bar and harness at least. But for street, a cage is too dangerous.

We decided on a 4 or 6 point roll bar and deleting the rear seat. You can have two forward points if they are low and padded. For the street a 4 point is best since the frotn occupents have nothing to hit. We will be using takata 6 point harnesses, but may switch back to regualr seatbelts for the street. A harness should really only be used with some form of roll over protection. The only case I can see using a harness bar with a harness is auto-x where roll over is not really a risk. On the street and open track, its a bad idea as in a rollover, the roof will crush down onto you and the harness will not give.