Rear toe is unfortunately tied to rear camber based on the Evo rear set up. I've experimented quite a bit. With the Evo, even extreme rear toe-out should not be a big fear. Remember that the chassis is much more FWD based so treat it that way with the front drive wheels helping to stabilize any inherent instability. I'm sure I'd choose the most rear toe out and least camber of just about anyone if I could. Unfortunately, the more toe-out, the more camber. It's a tradeoff but I'd lean toward more toe out.

John......

 

I also got -1.8 (left) and -2.0x (right) stock...

 

John what's your take on front toe, and how much (or little) negative rear camber do you think would give good balance given the limitations of an AS Evo? How do you think it might differ from an STU/BSP Evo given coilovers?

 

LOL! 10 deg .... I would love to see any car with that much -ve camber in person ... Actually from what I have read the camber curve on the STi is similar to the EVO but it starts off with less static camber. I think you are correct, I haven't seen any STis with as much rear wheel lift as the EVOs but they get sooo close to completely lifting the rear off the ground. It almost feels like those tires are hardly providing any grip. Those pics you posted are downright scary.

I'm a little skeptical of running rear toe out on the EVO because under compression the rear suspension on the EVO naturally toes out. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but adding more toe would be a recipe for snap oversteer as you are increasing the slip angle in the rear. As a result transitioning through slaloms will end up being slower, correct? I've gotten the EVO to oversteer multiple times through slaloms due to overly aggressive steering inputs and weight transition. My alignment is ZERO toe in all round. Wouldn't static rear toe also make bumpsteer worse? There are multiple ways we can lose grip in the rear but we can't tune the suspension properly due to the restrictions of the class.

I would think it would make more sense to play with the ackerman's angle to get the desired turn in effect, correct? But then again the weight transfer is working against us.

I do agree with you that the EVO doesn't have the ability to power oversteer in the higher gears in stock form, unless it is wet and we have "plastic" ultra skinny tires with no tread ...

 

I believe that this is a misnomer. This is not like the honda awd system. From what I have heard it is not a FWD biased system...

 

Note that he didn't say a FWD-biased drivetrain, he said a FWD-based chassis. Which I interpreted to mean that the car autocrosses like a FWD car, and I couldn't agree more.

The drivetrain does send significant torque to the rear wheels all the time, but for autocross purposes, it behaves MUCH more like a FWD car than it does like a RWD car. I've had the pleasure of having some top autoXers drive my Evo -- those who come from driving FWD cars have always been quicker faster than those who come from driving RWD cars. Similarly, I've been able to drive top-prepped Nationally competitive FWD and RWD Street Mod cars, and I adapted to the FWD car much quicker; I even told the owner that it drove like my Evo. In the RWD car, I felt like a fish out of water -- it drove nothing like my Evo.

 

Look at where the engine/tranny are located on the Evo.. look just like most
Hondas (FWD biased)...

 

And might become even more clear if you look at the longitudinal engine and gearbox mounting on the STi.

 

I think it's safe to say that you and I slalom very differently. When possible, you really have to "stay ahead" of the slalom and get on the "back side" of transition cones. That way, the slide if applicable works for you and not against. Easier explained in the car. As you know, there's no absolute rights or wrongs with setup and again, it's all about trade-offs. I just tend to like a loose car and use smooth, yet quick, proactive inputs to make the car work. In my opinion, the car is quickest (and generally more fun) on a solo course when you can "manage" a good portion of transitions with throttle rather than all steering.

John......

 

That was the old me, the new me drives very differently with little to no aggressive inputs, I just sneak my car through slaloms with minimal steering. The toughest part for me to improve has been slaloms. In a KC event I was told by Steve S. (ZZYZX) that I was driving through the slalom portion of the course with the rear swinging out the entire time and he said I seemed pretty comfortable oversteering through corners. In car, it felt like the car was very neutral with the entire car moving sideways.

Even on a race track during HPDEs, my friends who have riden with me and chased me in their own cars have said, I oversteer a little through medium to low speed corner. Ofcourse they think I'm crazy But I would never do that in a high speed corner. Except one time that I ended up drifting (unintentionally) my EVO sideways @ 55mph through a sweeper, start to finish. Needless to say there were a lot of eager folks waiting to talk to me in the paddock. I guess everyone has their own comfort zone.

 

My bad. In that case I agree 1000%.

I have seen a number of times on this board that have stated that evos are FWD biased which is incorrect.

 

+1

 

Good luck to all competing with the EVO in AS Nationally for the 07 season. I've decided to run in STU ....

 

No point in my typing the same thing so I'll just make amendments Due to costs and longevity I've been told to go with the RA-1s in 255/40/17. Is this the best size to go on 8 inch wheel? Wouldn't it balloon too much at that width?

On the A046s I usually run around 35psi on the front and 33-34psi in the rear and I love the way the car behaves. What pressures are usually run on the RA-1s, and what would be equivalent to the pressures I have mentioned above?

Finally, wheels. Was thinking of picking up a set of Enkei RPF1s (15.6lbs) or a set of TDR Pro Race 1.2s (19.8lbs looks nicer too ) for a cheaper price. How much of an advantage does that weight difference translate to? The car and I are far from ready to compete at a national level, but it would still be nice to start building on a good setup.

This does mean steel braided brake lines can be used right? For those without ABS, does upgrading the brake lines help with detecting that fine line between optimal braking and locking up?

 

Brake linings doesn't mean brake lines -- it means brake pads.