So you saying the fastest driver and fastest car should have equal chance at winning with the slower driver and cars, and actually the slower guys have better chance at winning cause they are not as hard in tires?

I think this is BS. F1 is about driving at limits, not about saving tires. Its not an endurance race like Lemans.

I don't know if Pirelli are making these tires on purpose or they are not capable of making good tires but either way it looks bad for them in the publics eyes.

Remember several years back when they had to do the whole race on one set of tire.

 

I'm with Ken on this one. From a technical viewpoint F1 has been castrated for a long time now. For people complaining that they want the "best" driver to win - go watch another formula (GP2, F3, Nascar, Indy, DTM...). There are plenty of other series that pit identical equipment against each other, with only the driver and the quality of the setup making a difference. And really, what is the definition of being the "best" driver? Is managing tires and fuel any less of a skill than *****-to-the-wall racing? IMO that's what I find appealing about the current F1 format. In qualifying it's whoever can take their car to the absolute limit without making any mistakes, whereas in the race you now have to manage the tires and fuel. So in order to secure pole position and win the race, you have to be a complete driver. In watching the Long Beach Indy car race this year, there was a point in the race where Takuma Sato (yeah, I know right?) and Will Power were on the same fuel strategy, and Power was not only faster each lap, but also drove 7 laps more before having to pit. Pretty impressive, IMO.

The other thing that I really like this year, and where F1 is more like DTM these days, is that the field is close enough throughout the race to where a couple of extra seconds lost during a pit stop will cost a driver and team some places. McLaren's misfortunes with Hamilton last race really highlighted this.

On a separate note, anyone notice how the pitstops this year seem to be slightly slower on average than last year? Seemed to me like getting a mid 3 second tire change wasn't that uncommon last year, but teams seem to be having a hard time matching that this year.

l8r)

 

Funny, when I first got into photography I made that comment to a guy online and he was enraged. I got flamed like crazy. I later learned that the camera has little to do with taking good pictures, it is mostly the photographer. A bad photographer with a 6000$ camera will take crappier photos than a great photographer with an iphone.

As far as the tires, they need to be part of the racing but they shouldn't hold them back too much. I guess finding that line where they can race as hard as their skill will allow them and at the same time manage tires. I don't know where that line it though so I can't help.

 

Maybe.... but no matter how good of a photographer you are you still can't take pictures like that with an iPhone so I still want to know what kind of camera it is, specifically because I'm looking to buy one.

 

D7000. But it's really the photographer (as Uscbryan pointed out) and technique. My best pics last year at Suzuka are still better than my pics this year in Malaysia, and those pics were taken with a lens which is 1/10th the price of the lens I bought for Malaysia. If you can find out why, you'll have the knowledge to take better pictures. My expensive lens will just increase my hit rate (ie instead of 1 of 10 photos being good with the cheapo lens, I'd have 7 of 10 being good with the more expensive lens).

Anyway, back on topic, I don't want the tires to be solely responsible for all the passing. Even if you look at the "undercut" tactic, now the whole point is to get out on fresher tires to essentially make a pass via pit stop. It works even better with the huge fall off with the Pirelli's. I remember in the older days when a slower car could hold off a faster car for many, many laps and sometimes the only method to pass was to pit before the other car and set fast laps.

However, I'd still prefer to have the drivers drive the wheels off their cars to pass each other on track. Now that KERS and DRS are in, the cars which are setting faster lap times than the cars in front of them shouldn't have a hard time passing.

Bottom line, tire deg shouldn't be so drastic. I'd rather watch drivers duking it out over skill and tactics instead of waiting to see which driver has better tire management.

 

Basically, in a nutshell, you are advocating NASCAR type racing. They have multitudinous lead changes every race. And, everyone is exactly equal. Body templates, same exact tires, engine specs the same. Sorry, but this is not the history of F1. Go back to the beginning of the modern era in the 50's, all the way to the present, and you will see the best drivers in the best cars winning the most championships. At the moment, there are impressive articles all over F1 sites where former drivers, current drivers and seasoned reporters are against this rapid tire degradation issue as it is rewarding the slower, more cautious drivers while penalizing the more aggressive drivers. The fact that drivers are backing off in qualifying should speak volumes why this is not working. And, we have certainly seen drivers like Kimi, Lewis and Schumi hurting because of this. I agree that the "show" is better this year, but to be honest, it has never bothered me to see a driver run away with a race as it shows how on form he is on that particular day. So, to sum it up: Classic F1 > NASCARized F1

 

^ +1000

 

Agreed. More racing, less worrying about tires

 

Eh? How am I advocating NASCAR type of racing? Did I sneak the word oval in there somewhere? I would love to go back to the days of fewer engine restrictions, aero restrictions, etc. I simply pointed out that those that are complaining about their perceived best driver not winning, they should watch a different formula. You don't see me complaining about the "best" driver winning or not winning.

I have to disagree with this statement. I think we could arguably say that the best cars have won the most championships, but best drivers? Really? Who has been the best driver over the past 4 years then? How about during Schumacher's first career? How about during Senna's career? IMO it's patently ridiculous to claim that the best drivers in the best cars win the most championships. What wins drivers championships in F1 is the best driver/car combo, with a much heavier emphasis on the car than the driver.

I think the only driver possibly hurting out of that list is Lewis. Schumi may be whining, but he's been doing pretty good ... relatively speaking. Ditto for Kimi - he and Lotus have had a bit of a learning curve, but I'd bet he'll be in the mix from here-on-out.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing F1 cars that can push the limits of the drivers. It wouldn't be hard to engineer a car that is faster than even the best driver, but heaven forbid, then we'd have the safety nuts (led by the F1 driver's association, no doubt) all up in arms about it. For right now, though, I'm really enjoying the fact that it's not necessarily the 'fastest' car that will win on Sunday, but the combination of best setup, pit work, and intelligent driving that wins the day. I'm sure once the teams get a better handle on how to manage the tires, things will settle down a bit and we'll get races more in line with the "modern F1 era" that I pretty much fast forward through after the first few laps as the outcome is already evident.

l8r)

 

This pretty much sums it up for me

Later, Ken

 

Agreed. I really think separating Qualy tires from Race tires will give the fans the best of both worlds. Even after the cars go into parc ferme' the teams could switch out the tires with the same type of tire for the race.

Well said.

 

D7000 is a great camera. Just sold mine. But any DSLR will take those pictures if you have the right lens and know what you are doing. BTW Check out Chase Jarvis to see what can be done with an iPhone. Sorry to go off track here.

I love F1 because they aren't all the same. I went to the Long Beach grand prix a few weekends ago and watched like 5 min of the race. Couldnt stand the cars. All the cars looked the same, and they aren't even open wheel anymore. Just the front. It's basically open wheel NASCAR. I love that it takes so many parts to come together at any given time to take P1 in F1. But I also want to see ***** out racing. I would rather other factors effect the performance like aero design than tires. I don't want to see a driver drive slower than he is capable of just to conserve tires. If he is slowing because he is pushing the tires as hard as he can and there is nothing left, that's great but to conserve tires and be happy with non P1 doesn't do it for me. I think banning the blown difussiors was a mistake. I remember the first thing that impressed me about F1 was how fast they can take a corner. Sure red bull was dominating but it was just a matter of time before others figured it out. And for the price of tickets I would be livid if I went to a race and Vettel decided not to go to Q3 to conserve tires.

 

When an immovable object meets an irrestiable force sparks usually fly...the current "negotiations" for the next Concord Agreement has reached an impass that appears to B rather large and it is between two rather large personalities: Bernie, the ego that cannot be transcended and Brawn, the english bull dog. This from Bernie: "I have spoken to the team manager (Brawn) about it (the dispute) and he seems to believe that the team has won a few world titles and about 80 races since the Tyrrell days [and expects entitlements within the Concord Agreement for these past achievments]," ...of course since money is involved with less for him, Bernie is refusing to even talk any further to Brawn...now he is whining about it: "He was never very nice to me," ...hey Bernie, when U were mugged, U took it better than this!...these R signs that he is definitely getting old...time to move on.

Later, Ken

 

^ This is gonna sound harsh but Bernie needs to pass on, because we all know he won't leave F1 until he dies

I'm tired of him screwing things over just because he's looking for an extra million

 

^Well, it now appears that the reason Bernie is getting rather sentimental and "hurt" by Brawn's demands is he is now engaged to a woman 46 years his junior...sort of like marrying UR daughter...so V-man, Bernie is not "moving on" but rather "sowing his oats"...his words about the impending marriage are, how can I say it, "priceless": "....though I must say I am absolutely no trouble at home and I think she is lucky to have me."...some of that "luck" comes in the form of 100,000 English Sterling engagement ring...wonder about the cost of the wedding...That said, I shall leave U with this, "There is no fool like an old fool"

Later, Ken