Continental Spors Car Race Question
Oooookay. I don't think you're talking from your ***. I think you're merely misunderstanding what I'm saying. The CTSCC race is mimicking the old Trans-Am races where guys like Donahue, Bucknum, Penske, Parnelli Jones, etc cut their teeth and competed in epic races-- Camaro against Mustang, a spackling of Porsches. The allowance of the Subaru was because they already had a relationship with SRRT/ICY-Phoenix from ST class racing. They moved the STi up to GS. It was a very long, uphill battle to get the car right, and now that it has an acceptable amount of power, it turns out the stock parts aren't made to handle it for 3 hours.
I did my research. Those Evos in the Australian Manufacturers Championship are close to stock, competing NOT against M3's and Holdens, but in the same class as things like 335's and 135's, cars that have similar wheel horsepower. The horsepower is close to stock, as are the drivetrains. This, I can believe will work for reliability as it is how Mitsubishi designed it: to handle ~300hp-- similar to my point of saying the other cars in CTSCC GS-class are able to better handle the appropriate 400-450whp.
If YOU do your own research and look through your own example, for instance, the Dubai 24H Ralliart, you'll see that it finished, but many laps down due to... What? Drivetrain failure.
You also COMPLETELY misunderstood my comment about FiA and the Camaro. I didn't mean make a new class. In fact, with your explanation for why I am incorrect, you actually proved me right: You can just make a class where every car works. The Evo does not work, in it's current trim, in GS-class racing, which is in the U.S. of A, thus I speak of HERE, not in Australia or anywhere else.
If the US rally rules made it "fair" for the Mitsus, then the 2.5L guys would complain that they can't race. You're back in the same place, my friend. You have this amazing car that can't compete, so the series is clearly unfair. To your point, the Evo can make AMAZING power and NEVER breaks, so why can't the 2.0L engine take down the boxer 2.5s?
Again (I do repeat a lot, don't I?... feel I have to...), the Evo is an outstanding rally rocket. They have come a long way since the DSM 3-bolt whatevers and 6-speed eruptions. They can take a lot of abuse in most conditions. I think the verdict I see all over the place is that they are decent stock-power endurance racers, and great high-powered sprint racers, but not much in between. That's fine. The Camaro weighs as much as a small moon because it's made to handle massive torque and to tip over redwoods with it's exhaust note. They are two very different cars. It would take a lot of engineering to make either do what the other can. This is only my point. GS is not Sport Compact Car-class, it stands for Grand Sport. As sporty as an Evo can be, it is not GRAND.
Point and match.
I did my research. Those Evos in the Australian Manufacturers Championship are close to stock, competing NOT against M3's and Holdens, but in the same class as things like 335's and 135's, cars that have similar wheel horsepower. The horsepower is close to stock, as are the drivetrains. This, I can believe will work for reliability as it is how Mitsubishi designed it: to handle ~300hp-- similar to my point of saying the other cars in CTSCC GS-class are able to better handle the appropriate 400-450whp.
If YOU do your own research and look through your own example, for instance, the Dubai 24H Ralliart, you'll see that it finished, but many laps down due to... What? Drivetrain failure.
You also COMPLETELY misunderstood my comment about FiA and the Camaro. I didn't mean make a new class. In fact, with your explanation for why I am incorrect, you actually proved me right: You can just make a class where every car works. The Evo does not work, in it's current trim, in GS-class racing, which is in the U.S. of A, thus I speak of HERE, not in Australia or anywhere else.
If the US rally rules made it "fair" for the Mitsus, then the 2.5L guys would complain that they can't race. You're back in the same place, my friend. You have this amazing car that can't compete, so the series is clearly unfair. To your point, the Evo can make AMAZING power and NEVER breaks, so why can't the 2.0L engine take down the boxer 2.5s?
Again (I do repeat a lot, don't I?... feel I have to...), the Evo is an outstanding rally rocket. They have come a long way since the DSM 3-bolt whatevers and 6-speed eruptions. They can take a lot of abuse in most conditions. I think the verdict I see all over the place is that they are decent stock-power endurance racers, and great high-powered sprint racers, but not much in between. That's fine. The Camaro weighs as much as a small moon because it's made to handle massive torque and to tip over redwoods with it's exhaust note. They are two very different cars. It would take a lot of engineering to make either do what the other can. This is only my point. GS is not Sport Compact Car-class, it stands for Grand Sport. As sporty as an Evo can be, it is not GRAND.
Point and match.
And actually a better engine in my opinion , and so as many subaru guys opinion. JDM YO
also being no chance, not a bad read
:http://www.grand-am.com/tabid/141/ar...Home-Turf.aspx
What do they allow the suby to do to get to 450whp? I'd bet you could make a 450whp evo last if you could do it the way it needed.
I'd love to see the SCCA allow a tube frame GT evo to be built and raced. They are scared of that!
I think the point some folks were making in this thread is that you really don't see evo's race in many series at all. And there is a "dislike it seems" of AWD turbo cars in many race series. Its kind of sad!
I'd love to see the SCCA allow a tube frame GT evo to be built and raced. They are scared of that!
I think the point some folks were making in this thread is that you really don't see evo's race in many series at all. And there is a "dislike it seems" of AWD turbo cars in many race series. Its kind of sad!
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: San Mateo, CA
The win at NJMP was awesome for them. It was their home track, they were left with no guess work on the setup, and the straights are short enough that the AWD helped them out when it got greasy. It was a good solid win.
If the Evo's win so much, why won't Mitsubishi support them? Your reasons are slipping away.
Tube frame Evos would be neat-- and have NOTHING to do with an Evo. The AWD would likely not be derived from the Mitsubishi line, more from X-Trac or Getrag. I don't know what class it would run it, but it could be good in, say, WC-GT against the CTS-V and Volvo. Again, it has little to do with a production car, which is why I am trying to more to keep the conversation close to GS.
I do think there is a very small amount of AWD-turbo cars in racing. They were never REALLY made to go road racing in those trims, were they? Cars intended for road racing show up in road racing more often. MOST road racing cars are either smaller FWD cars or larger, higher-horsepower RWD cars. Turbos are power-adders, and frowned upon quite often until very recently. When it comes down to it, you are cramming the energy of a V8 into half as many cylinders. Breakages will happen more often.
AWD is relatively new to the world of sport sedans. 1983, I believe, was Audi's introduction to the world with the Quattro. It is an advantage in some ways, in others, it's just weight. If you had a platform that best used it, think Audi again with the R18-Quattro or the Porsche GT3-Hybrid, then you'll see truly beneficial road racing AWD systems.
If the Evo's win so much, why won't Mitsubishi support them? Your reasons are slipping away.
Tube frame Evos would be neat-- and have NOTHING to do with an Evo. The AWD would likely not be derived from the Mitsubishi line, more from X-Trac or Getrag. I don't know what class it would run it, but it could be good in, say, WC-GT against the CTS-V and Volvo. Again, it has little to do with a production car, which is why I am trying to more to keep the conversation close to GS.
I do think there is a very small amount of AWD-turbo cars in racing. They were never REALLY made to go road racing in those trims, were they? Cars intended for road racing show up in road racing more often. MOST road racing cars are either smaller FWD cars or larger, higher-horsepower RWD cars. Turbos are power-adders, and frowned upon quite often until very recently. When it comes down to it, you are cramming the energy of a V8 into half as many cylinders. Breakages will happen more often.
AWD is relatively new to the world of sport sedans. 1983, I believe, was Audi's introduction to the world with the Quattro. It is an advantage in some ways, in others, it's just weight. If you had a platform that best used it, think Audi again with the R18-Quattro or the Porsche GT3-Hybrid, then you'll see truly beneficial road racing AWD systems.
Just to be clear on why I think MBellRacing's posts are better, Robevo_RS, he is posting about the actual series in question. You keep mentioning rally, but that's completely irrelevant. Rallying has vastly different requirements; we may as well bring in drag cars for how useful references to rally cars are. The same can be said of Evos running in race series in different countries. Unless the rules, and the cars, are 100% identical, it's a useless comparison. The simple fact is, under the current rules, an Evo would not be competitive in Continental for a variety of reasons really. People can try to claim it's because the world is afraid of Evos but that just sounds like a lot of fanboy BS to me. You're a very knowledgeable person when it comes to rally racing, but I think it's rather clear that MBellRacing knows more about Continental, and despite your claims, he does have experience with Evos.
Edit: Oh, and to be clear, the USA is not the only country to allow larger than 2.0 cars in rallying. Canada does as well. In fact, if you go to a Canadian rally, most are sponsored by Subaru. Subaru absolutely throws money at motorsports in North America. They're taking a page out of Mazda's book and supporting grassroot racers. Mitsubishi does not appear to do the same, even in Canada, the country I live in (in case someone wants to claim I don't have experience in it). I know of a few people who drive Mitsubishis competitively and from what I can tell, they're sponsored by dealerships, not Mitsubishi itself. By contrast, Subaru came out to a local track day put on by our local Subaru club to give out apparel, among other things. When you're trying to build a competitive car, factory backing is a pretty big incentive. Hell, a weekend of ChumpCar is a good $5000 in team expenses, and that's if you have very few issues (burn through tires and brakes).
Edit: Oh, and to be clear, the USA is not the only country to allow larger than 2.0 cars in rallying. Canada does as well. In fact, if you go to a Canadian rally, most are sponsored by Subaru. Subaru absolutely throws money at motorsports in North America. They're taking a page out of Mazda's book and supporting grassroot racers. Mitsubishi does not appear to do the same, even in Canada, the country I live in (in case someone wants to claim I don't have experience in it). I know of a few people who drive Mitsubishis competitively and from what I can tell, they're sponsored by dealerships, not Mitsubishi itself. By contrast, Subaru came out to a local track day put on by our local Subaru club to give out apparel, among other things. When you're trying to build a competitive car, factory backing is a pretty big incentive. Hell, a weekend of ChumpCar is a good $5000 in team expenses, and that's if you have very few issues (burn through tires and brakes).
Last edited by ambystom01; Jul 16, 2012 at 08:56 PM.
What do they allow the suby to do to get to 450whp? I'd bet you could make a 450whp evo last if you could do it the way it needed.
I'd love to see the SCCA allow a tube frame GT evo to be built and raced. They are scared of that!
I think the point some folks were making in this thread is that you really don't see evo's race in many series at all. And there is a "dislike it seems" of AWD turbo cars in many race series. Its kind of sad!
I'd love to see the SCCA allow a tube frame GT evo to be built and raced. They are scared of that!
I think the point some folks were making in this thread is that you really don't see evo's race in many series at all. And there is a "dislike it seems" of AWD turbo cars in many race series. Its kind of sad!
Fact of the matter is Subaru runs it with 450 whp and not on the last place etc. So the EVo which has at least a same, if not better reilabilty at the 450 whp level, doesnt.
The question was why? One guy said who race there , and talked to fellow racers(no one with an Evo) , because they are way to unrialable. Which is i responded BS. That is not a reason. Basically because it is not true, at least not the enviroment where Subaru can race and win. End of story.
Just to make some point here about dislikes , you were ther Jeremy when we did do hiull climb together with a big sanctining body R/A. i was pulled out every time after the hill climb for restrictor check up and other thing is.. Not one car runned by R/A had to to that...
They could have service nicely a mean time. Like the Ford or the Subaru. And so on.
The Grupe B Audi wasnt allow to run at the event , and they decided that at the event . Who actually did hold the hill record... Why? But Higginds (factory USA subaru driver -RA car never been checked, he broke the record by the way) Not once we got showed in the movie(travel channel) , not even 10th of the second, which made from the race and factory ford driver , and called the fastest rally driver there that day, we were faster.. But they showed the slowest cars etc nicely... And that is just one event latelly we have been. Yes that is a friendly welcome for the Evo's... By the way Jeremy you did make it to the spot light with your car in the movie?
Not to mention SCCA changed rules because the WRX and the EVO , when they did run a same class with corvettes and friends. Tha was an AutoX, if i remember right. And put them in the other category, were basically they didnt belonged before. Why? They even said it in a press realese, they were dominating too much of the class where they originally belonged.Would they do that if the Corvette would dominate it for 10 years in the row? We all know the answere...
So yes there is a unfriendly enviroment for them and it does a lot against them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ambystom01:
Canada Rally = CARS and RA is a join buisness that is why they can run 2.5L .FYI
Mitsubishi dealers does support rally racers there (so as here) But also the Main Mitsubishi Canada (not the Mitsubishi USA here). I know this from personal experience, and offer... Maybe that is why i will going next year to run at least one race in Canada. They do support still Mitsu guys. Not as much in a broader level like Subaru, but still they do vs USA.
Yeah its a good idea to leave the rally out of this, besides the FACT i wasnt the one who brought it up , and does it continiusly. I just answere to the questions or shaky comments when they pointing out "facts" about it
Last edited by Robevo RS; Jul 17, 2012 at 04:07 AM.
As said, the Subaru you are referring to is factory backed, has a single win at its home track to its name and was a 3 year development project. That hardly proves your point at all. If anything, it shows rather clearly that the Continental is not a particularly good series for Subaru. In general, Subarus and Evos are not good for road racing. They're great at rally and time attack but crowds, heat and hours of constant abuse are not their cup of tea.
As for autocross, which is off-topic by the way, have you checked national autocross rankings lately? Both Subaru and Mitsubishi do quite well actually in certain classes. Autocross is about keeping competition as close as possible so if what you are saying is true, I'm not shocked they would change the rules slightly. I suspect you may be referring to the different tire rules for AWD vs FWD/RWD cars.
As for autocross, which is off-topic by the way, have you checked national autocross rankings lately? Both Subaru and Mitsubishi do quite well actually in certain classes. Autocross is about keeping competition as close as possible so if what you are saying is true, I'm not shocked they would change the rules slightly. I suspect you may be referring to the different tire rules for AWD vs FWD/RWD cars.
Last edited by ambystom01; Jul 17, 2012 at 06:47 AM.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 154
From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Not to mention SCCA changed rules because the WRX and the EVO , when they did run a same class with corvettes and friends. Tha was an AutoX, if i remember right. And put them in the other category, were basically they didnt belonged before. Why? They even said it in a press realese, they were dominating too much of the class where they originally belonged.Would they do that if the Corvette would dominate it for 10 years in the row? We all know the answere...
So yes there is a unfriendly enviroment for them and it does a lot against them.
So yes there is a unfriendly enviroment for them and it does a lot against them.
The WRX is still in ESP and it's competitive but not dominant.
In Street Touring the Evo/STi are pretty even and both competitive in their class.
From what I have seen over the years the EVO is MUCH more Reliable at 450hp then the suby. This is not fanboy talk it's what I have seen being around modded suby's.
I think the home page to grand-am show's exactly why there are no EVO's. I don't see
as a sponsor whereas I see every other car mfg on the banner. You couldn't have a car win that wasn't sponsoring the series now could you? ( I understand there might be more but you CAN NOT tell me that's not a factor)
From what I've seen the suby does pretty well but breaks. I'd bet if a few more teams ran them for a bit that they could solve that. I really couldn't imagine the other mfg being very happy if a gaggle of suby's were out there winning. That would be humiliating.
So how does a 350z compete with 450 "stock" cars? Why did they allow all these extra things to make it competitive?
I think the home page to grand-am show's exactly why there are no EVO's. I don't see
as a sponsor whereas I see every other car mfg on the banner. You couldn't have a car win that wasn't sponsoring the series now could you? ( I understand there might be more but you CAN NOT tell me that's not a factor) From what I've seen the suby does pretty well but breaks. I'd bet if a few more teams ran them for a bit that they could solve that. I really couldn't imagine the other mfg being very happy if a gaggle of suby's were out there winning. That would be humiliating.
So how does a 350z compete with 450 "stock" cars? Why did they allow all these extra things to make it competitive?
You are a bit off here. There are multiple prep levels in SCCA autox: stock, street touring, street prepared, and it goes from there. The Evo and STi started in ESP with Camaros and Mustangs (not Corvettes). They dominated cars that had years of prep and great drivers, and they got bumped up to BSP, where the Evo became the car to have. And this last year they bumped it to ASP, where it's still probably the car to have, so that some of the BSP also rans could be competitive again.
The WRX is still in ESP and it's competitive but not dominant.
In Street Touring the Evo/STi are pretty even and both competitive in their class.
The WRX is still in ESP and it's competitive but not dominant.
In Street Touring the Evo/STi are pretty even and both competitive in their class.
Also i just pointed out the fact they did changed things around evos sti because they sucsess....
Its a fact, it is written by scca taken action by scca
So it was basically the point out one of the documentad action against them
As said, the Subaru you are referring to is factory backed, has a single win at its home track to its name and was a 3 year development project. That hardly proves your point at all. If anything, it shows rather clearly that the Continental is not a particularly good series for Subaru. In general, Subarus and Evos are not good for road racing. They're great at rally and time attack but crowds, heat and hours of constant abuse are not their cup of tea.
As for autocross, which is off-topic by the way, have you checked national autocross rankings lately? Both Subaru and Mitsubishi do quite well actually in certain classes. Autocross is about keeping competition as close as possible so if what you are saying is true, I'm not shocked they would change the rules slightly. I suspect you may be referring to the different tire rules for AWD vs FWD/RWD cars.
As for autocross, which is off-topic by the way, have you checked national autocross rankings lately? Both Subaru and Mitsubishi do quite well actually in certain classes. Autocross is about keeping competition as close as possible so if what you are saying is true, I'm not shocked they would change the rules slightly. I suspect you may be referring to the different tire rules for AWD vs FWD/RWD cars.
They did the same thing with the Miata decades ago. It's autocross, keeping things as even as possible is a top priority. It has nothing to do with being "scared" or anti whomever, it's about making it as accessible for as many people as possible.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: San Mateo, CA
On the comment about who becomes a sponsor of Grand-Am: Notice ALL the manufacturers are on that list. They call it their "partners". Subaru does pay more, but they did so a while back with the "Subaru Track Maps" and when they bought the rights to NJMP. Again, I feel it had more to do with the fact that Subaru's success was dwindling when running the Legacy Spec-B in ST class where it was just too large and had to wait for rain to get up on the podium. They allowed the STi in because there was that relationship. Do I think the same would have been done if Mitsubishi forked over the money to call it the "Mitsubishi Track Map"? I'm not sure. Grand-Am likes to keep it's current teams and manufacturers happy. They like teams like Turner, Stevenson, TRG, etc, that have been in with them for quite a long time.
The Subaru is not getting quite 450hp, if I had to say. That 450hp number was just a vague estimate of what everyone is making on average, not a specific rule from Grand-Am. They do limit the boost slightly on turbocharged cars at high altitude tracks and, as said, the Subaru really has a hard time keeping heat out of it. I would say at this point they are are sufficiently quick on the straights, making up most of their time due to their relative weight and their pull off the corners in changing conditions.
I know Evos can get that much power quite easily. I had a street Evo 8 that was making about 400whp and the engine itself rarely had an issue. I did go through clutches and my gearbox was eventually whining about it. Of course, I never spent 3 hours at full throttle behind cars pumping out heat, either. You all have to look at the situation from Grand-Am's point of view. They allow a rally rocket into a Trans-Am-style race. They might as well let a Prius and a Suburban in at that point, in some of their eyes-- it's WILDLY different than most anything already homologated. It comes out, has no power and/or breaks all the time, takes 3 years to finally win a race or even be competitive at all, and still complains of constant breakage. Why would they say, "YES, let's do THAT again"? To everyone on a Mitsubishi forum, this may seem very biased against their beloved Japanese monopoly, but to Grand-Am, it is simply preserving the image of the series and saving work for themselves, at risk of only upsetting a very small portion of the domestic automotive society.
The 370Z is a weird case. I'm very surprised that they allowed it in, and initially, it looked like they were getting rid of it after A.M. sold their cars. My understanding is that Nissan came to Grand-Am and said "we'd like to race". Grand-Am said, fine, probably expecting the car to have the umph of the Porsche, which wasn't the case. They essentially told the Nissan teams that they can slowly add Nismo parts until the car has the power it needs. The previous team never quite had a chance to reveal the 370's true performance, but after Doran got a hold of it, it was a new story. Doran has been around for decades in racing (think: Ferrari 333SP), has their own fab shop, and really knows how to ring a car out to get some performance. With the headers and simple rev limit increase, that car is VERY fast in a straight line-- I'd say about even with the Subaru. It is so light and has such great balance that it really is an overall racing force to be reckoned with. They break very rarely since most of the parts are factory racing units and the car simply is made for road racing. This is to say that it is built with a proper weight distribution and has relatively decent suspension geometry to play enduro-racer from the factory, not to mention brilliant aerodynamics. The 370 has had a relatively short history in Grand-Am so far. They joined up last year at Barber (IIRC) and just had their best race attempt at the Glen (when they were taken out by an asshat ST car). They were leading the race. That car is fundamentally built for road racing, as is the BMW, as is the Porsche. The Mustang and Camaro are shoehorned in because they are what the series was built for. The Subaru and Evo don't really fit that mold. Do I like watching the Subaru race with us? YES. It's a lot of fun. It's also heartbreaking when you see them break down an hour in. Would I like to see a bunch of Evos out there? YES. But you know what? Even I have seen how much effort it has taken to get that Subie going, and at the end of the day, there must be better outlets for such a well engineered car.
Rob, your whole thing about Travel Channel and Pikes Peak... TV is TV, first of all. Celebrity always wins over talent because it is easier to feed fans. Maybe the series was worried about your times, thus they pulled your restrictor. Who cares? Be honored. We get sent to impound all the time at Grand-Am, as do a random number of other cars and teams. It's how you know it's fair. It does take up some time, but it's all for the benefit of a series. I simply feel there is insufficient evidence of R/A being biased against Mitsubishi and their Evo in that story, or anywhere, for that matter. I'm actually surprised they didn't let the Group B Audi compete. He kinda owns that hill.
The Subaru is not getting quite 450hp, if I had to say. That 450hp number was just a vague estimate of what everyone is making on average, not a specific rule from Grand-Am. They do limit the boost slightly on turbocharged cars at high altitude tracks and, as said, the Subaru really has a hard time keeping heat out of it. I would say at this point they are are sufficiently quick on the straights, making up most of their time due to their relative weight and their pull off the corners in changing conditions.
I know Evos can get that much power quite easily. I had a street Evo 8 that was making about 400whp and the engine itself rarely had an issue. I did go through clutches and my gearbox was eventually whining about it. Of course, I never spent 3 hours at full throttle behind cars pumping out heat, either. You all have to look at the situation from Grand-Am's point of view. They allow a rally rocket into a Trans-Am-style race. They might as well let a Prius and a Suburban in at that point, in some of their eyes-- it's WILDLY different than most anything already homologated. It comes out, has no power and/or breaks all the time, takes 3 years to finally win a race or even be competitive at all, and still complains of constant breakage. Why would they say, "YES, let's do THAT again"? To everyone on a Mitsubishi forum, this may seem very biased against their beloved Japanese monopoly, but to Grand-Am, it is simply preserving the image of the series and saving work for themselves, at risk of only upsetting a very small portion of the domestic automotive society.
The 370Z is a weird case. I'm very surprised that they allowed it in, and initially, it looked like they were getting rid of it after A.M. sold their cars. My understanding is that Nissan came to Grand-Am and said "we'd like to race". Grand-Am said, fine, probably expecting the car to have the umph of the Porsche, which wasn't the case. They essentially told the Nissan teams that they can slowly add Nismo parts until the car has the power it needs. The previous team never quite had a chance to reveal the 370's true performance, but after Doran got a hold of it, it was a new story. Doran has been around for decades in racing (think: Ferrari 333SP), has their own fab shop, and really knows how to ring a car out to get some performance. With the headers and simple rev limit increase, that car is VERY fast in a straight line-- I'd say about even with the Subaru. It is so light and has such great balance that it really is an overall racing force to be reckoned with. They break very rarely since most of the parts are factory racing units and the car simply is made for road racing. This is to say that it is built with a proper weight distribution and has relatively decent suspension geometry to play enduro-racer from the factory, not to mention brilliant aerodynamics. The 370 has had a relatively short history in Grand-Am so far. They joined up last year at Barber (IIRC) and just had their best race attempt at the Glen (when they were taken out by an asshat ST car). They were leading the race. That car is fundamentally built for road racing, as is the BMW, as is the Porsche. The Mustang and Camaro are shoehorned in because they are what the series was built for. The Subaru and Evo don't really fit that mold. Do I like watching the Subaru race with us? YES. It's a lot of fun. It's also heartbreaking when you see them break down an hour in. Would I like to see a bunch of Evos out there? YES. But you know what? Even I have seen how much effort it has taken to get that Subie going, and at the end of the day, there must be better outlets for such a well engineered car.
Rob, your whole thing about Travel Channel and Pikes Peak... TV is TV, first of all. Celebrity always wins over talent because it is easier to feed fans. Maybe the series was worried about your times, thus they pulled your restrictor. Who cares? Be honored. We get sent to impound all the time at Grand-Am, as do a random number of other cars and teams. It's how you know it's fair. It does take up some time, but it's all for the benefit of a series. I simply feel there is insufficient evidence of R/A being biased against Mitsubishi and their Evo in that story, or anywhere, for that matter. I'm actually surprised they didn't let the Group B Audi compete. He kinda owns that hill.
Actually, rules do just that. You rally, how would you feel if they had no classes? As a rookie, would you feel good competing against fully prepped, WRC level cars? I know I wouldn't. It can be very discouraging to show up to an event and realize that unless you spend a lot of money, you'll never have a podium finish. Autocross is quite aggressive in addressing this problem, and it helps. I track a 99 Miata. I would be pretty pissed if I was grouped with Evos, STIs, GTRs, etc. as I'd never be able to win even if I was the Canadian Hamilton or Probst.
All of this "scared" talk just sounds like fanboy BS to me anyways. The same garbage comes up whenever the Evo is compared to other cars and it doesn't do as well as some people speculate it should (which generally means it doesn't destroy the competition). Just read the Lightning Lap threads for the past few years. There are always claims of bias, despite the fact that Mitsubishi advertises in Car & Driver, cheater cars and poor driving, from professional drivers like Probst that could run circles around almost any Evom member (there are some that would give him a run for his money though). I hate to break it to you guys but the Evo, and the STI, are no longer the forces they once were. 300 HP is not a lot anymore. A V6 Mustang makes that, hell, Camrys and Accords make that now. Both manufacturers need to make pretty dramatic changes if they want to maintain their reputation.
All of this "scared" talk just sounds like fanboy BS to me anyways. The same garbage comes up whenever the Evo is compared to other cars and it doesn't do as well as some people speculate it should (which generally means it doesn't destroy the competition). Just read the Lightning Lap threads for the past few years. There are always claims of bias, despite the fact that Mitsubishi advertises in Car & Driver, cheater cars and poor driving, from professional drivers like Probst that could run circles around almost any Evom member (there are some that would give him a run for his money though). I hate to break it to you guys but the Evo, and the STI, are no longer the forces they once were. 300 HP is not a lot anymore. A V6 Mustang makes that, hell, Camrys and Accords make that now. Both manufacturers need to make pretty dramatic changes if they want to maintain their reputation.
Last edited by ambystom01; Jul 17, 2012 at 11:29 AM.