I think you intentionally hit cones to let Brian win.

 

Didn't want the AWDs to look too good against the Z. Even with cones, I was still .14 back with 2 ProSolo launches. Looking at the top PAX, seemed like the courses favored AWD and Evos. Probably helped that there was only one turn-around to lose time on.

Interesting top 4 in STU were on different tires. The cool morning temp helped Dunlops vs Brian's Hankooks, I don't think he had the new versions? Seemed like D>Y>R>H on Sunday morning.

Congrats to you, kinda blows the mind when AM takes the top pax.

 

At the El Toro ProSolo, I figure by the first lift/braking cones, AWD had a combined 1.5+ sec advantage over the STU Z (~2.3 vs ~1.8 to the 60ft).

Looking at times from the last 5 events or so, I think Evos would need 285s to be competitive with 350Zs on a 60 sec solo course. The Evos would lose less time in the corners on 285s, and should be quicker on fast straight sections. The Z would be quicker through sweepers, corners and slaloms, and still put power down better with 285s than the STR 255s.

285s may also let the Evo Xs and newer STis become more competitive, increasing participation for STU cars already in the class instead of introducing new cars.

My concern is that if the STAC/SEB allows an incremental increase to 255s, it would take years more before the majority of the current cars are allowed enough tire for class parity. Then the Evos and STis could start to decline in STU, not unlike what happened to the once popular WRX in STX.

 

I agree Rick. Even if the SCCA bumped the tire allowance to a 255 for AWD cars, it would mean waiting another season to wait to see if this was enough tire to make the AWD cars competitive again (judging by Brian's times I don't think it will be enough). This would also definitely rule out the M3 as a competitor being stuck on 285s. If they rule to move to an even larger tire for AWD (285), this could mean the AWD competitors would need to all buy different springs, tires, and maybe other suspension related components.

I think the best move would be to remove the Z and C5, and allow larger tire allowance to level the playing field for newer AWD cars and allow a larger tire on the M3.

 

I'm very concerned about the precedent that was seemingly set by the whole WRX debacle. IIRC, they set tire limits to try and mitigate their advantage at Topeka and then did nothing once they moved back to Lincoln. Poof, there went the WRX, an extremely popular car back in the day.



Now there's some concern about the class, which causes instability; will this impact people's decisions to run STU at nationals this year?

 

Unless the gap between the 350Z and the AWD cars in STU starts closing a bit, I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that 255s (4% more width) are sufficient to level the playing field.

What about reducing the tire size for overdog 350Z instead of chasing performance improvements for every other car in the class? Anyone have any idea how the 350Z would compare if limited to something like 265 instead of the massive 285s it can run now?

 

I'm sure there is a big holistic discussion to be had, but the STAC sure seems to be pushing out a generation of possible fresh blood in the sport. The 20s generation is really picking up on all these AWD turbo cars as they can be raced and DD'd for fun on the street, yet the possible place to run a competitive car is dwindling down to $$$/non-street car classes.

Only 5 classes this year had an AWD car in the top 3. DS (Audi TT's), STU (Wont last), ASP, ESP, and SML (Mens class was all RWD in top 3). That means, if you want a top tier car that can still remain a DD, you need an Audi TT.

Who ever is making the rules really seem to hammer the AWD cars with limitations when they can. I'm just waiting for ASP to have a 245 limit place on AWD cars to bring "More competition" but in actuality kill half the class.

 

Check the Utah match tour results. The STR 350Z on 255s raw timed STU. This was with a full AWD launch on a low grip surface, and high altitude to boot!

 

Like I said, 255s on an evo or sti will not be enough. If it takes 30mm less tire on a Z to match the evo in preferred pavement/altitude conditions, it will take more than 10mm more tire on the evo to match the Z, especially on grip concrete.

So is there any way we can team up with the STI guys, and get a consensus on the next wave of letters to to the board? Or has every one lost hope?

 

We've barely started in to the 2014 season. I doubt everyone has lost hope yet. Let's get the ball rolling on the letters and keep it polite, professional, and consistent.

Side note: It's depressing to read the 2014 BS thread and see the guys there running 275-width tires while STU is stuck at 245.

 

With ability to run quite more tire in BS it might be able to get closer to the times STU EVOs are capable of. That will be more camber and stiffer springs against 30 mm of more thread on tires...

Fedja

 

Does anybody have their own video from San Diego or El Toro they could share? Brian's 350Z videos are all out there - he's right on every key cone, always on the throttle very early, and the car is very rarely out of shape.

I'll remain skeptical that he's winning because of the car until someone lets him take a few runs in a top-level Evo for comparison.

 

Hey Fedja,
Could very well be. A CS 370Z has recently raw timed all ST in our region, including past nats winning cars in STC, STR and STU.

 

I don't think the people here are skeptical of him winning. I think it's the perceived imbalance, imho.


Last year we went up against Ken Motonishi and Tom Kenna in Rick's car and had a great time losing to them (at least I did); it was a straight fight.

 

If I ever get those 8300s, it will be easy to know!