Coilover questions
Jun 23, 2015, 09:36 AM
#1
EvoM Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Coilover questions
So, in the next few months I am looking to do a serious coilover upgrade on my car. I currently have stance supersports with 9k/11k springs. I found the limits of these and am ready for something that rides better, and works better. My initial thoughts were Ohlins rt's with 10k/12k springs.
I emailed CBRD, and Chad rec's 10k/10k springs. Mueller won't tell me what springs he uses until I'm ready to purchase and sign a non-disclosure agreement (really?). And Works hasn't answered the 3 emails I sent them.
I was pretty set on the ohlins, but a used set of KW V3's popped up on FB from someone I'm friends with. They have about 20k miles, and 10k/12k swift springs. He does not know if they were revalved as they came with car when he bought it. He's asking 1500obo, and I have already worked out a lower price shipped, and they come with Tien camber plates.
What would you guys do? Save your pennies a bit longer for ohlins, or snag the used V3's for a good deal?
I emailed CBRD, and Chad rec's 10k/10k springs. Mueller won't tell me what springs he uses until I'm ready to purchase and sign a non-disclosure agreement (really?). And Works hasn't answered the 3 emails I sent them.
I was pretty set on the ohlins, but a used set of KW V3's popped up on FB from someone I'm friends with. They have about 20k miles, and 10k/12k swift springs. He does not know if they were revalved as they came with car when he bought it. He's asking 1500obo, and I have already worked out a lower price shipped, and they come with Tien camber plates.
What would you guys do? Save your pennies a bit longer for ohlins, or snag the used V3's for a good deal?
Last edited by letsgetthisdone; Jun 23, 2015 at 10:15 AM.
Jun 23, 2015, 09:43 AM
#3
Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What kind of racing do you do? Autocross, track?
What kind of other suspension goodies do you have?
Have you noticed any issues with the current setup you have?
Do you want a car that's more neutral, more oversteer, etc?
What kind of other suspension goodies do you have?
Have you noticed any issues with the current setup you have?
Do you want a car that's more neutral, more oversteer, etc?
Jun 23, 2015, 10:10 AM
#4
EvoM Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Car has whiteline front roll center correction, Perrin PSRS (offset, more caster), whiteline rear bump steer correction, whiteline trailing arm bushins, TRE 12 plate max lock rear diff, Wavetrac front diff, and English racing ACD tune. Stock swaybars.
Car currently rotates/oversteers with throttle lift or off throttle, and is very neutral or rotates well on throttle (easy to induce full blown oversteer with power also).
I really like the current balance. The issue is the car is easily upset by mid corner bumps, and still seems to have a decent amount of body roll and brake dive. I feel like the stance dampers are simply sub par in quality, as well as valving specs. I think they lack low speed damping, but then aren't capable of blowing off at high shafts speeds. Which results in the choppy ride and still present body roll and brake dive. I realize the that stiff springs will always result in a stiff ride, but I've ridden in M3's and GTR's with a higher quality suspension and while the ride is tight, it is still far and beyond what I have.
I've ridden in an Evo with fortunes, they don't work so much better to justify switching to them IMO. Granted, Idk what springs he was running, etc, but it didn't seem like they were that awesome.
Last edited by letsgetthisdone; Jun 23, 2015 at 10:15 AM.
Jun 23, 2015, 11:36 AM
#5
Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds to me like you are going to want to wait on some Ohlins. The KWv3 are nice but I think you'll want the better ride of the Ohlins.
Also, since you currently have stock sways you have some options. Possibly going with a stiffer rear sway and softer rear coil spring (like 10k/10k on ohlins). Upgrading sway bushings and endlinks might help a bit as well.
Also, since you currently have stock sways you have some options. Possibly going with a stiffer rear sway and softer rear coil spring (like 10k/10k on ohlins). Upgrading sway bushings and endlinks might help a bit as well.
Jun 23, 2015, 12:17 PM
#7
EvoM Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Sounds to me like you are going to want to wait on some Ohlins. The KWv3 are nice but I think you'll want the better ride of the Ohlins.
Also, since you currently have stock sways you have some options. Possibly going with a stiffer rear sway and softer rear coil spring (like 10k/10k on ohlins). Upgrading sway bushings and endlinks might help a bit as well.
Also, since you currently have stock sways you have some options. Possibly going with a stiffer rear sway and softer rear coil spring (like 10k/10k on ohlins). Upgrading sway bushings and endlinks might help a bit as well.
I've been thinking the same, I just wanted feedback from guys with more experience than me. I've read all the rave reviews on the ohlins, but couldn't seem to find much on the KW's for our platform.
I asked Chad about the rates. He says that with how well the ohlins damper works, you can get away with a softer spring for ride quality, but maintain a similar balance to what I have. He said he does typically upgrade the rear sway bar and the setup works very well.
And in chimes Chad...haha. Email and forum response, gotta love the customer service.
Trending Topics
Jun 23, 2015, 01:16 PM
#9
I went with the Ohlins because I was in a similar situation: Dual purpose car used for competition and some street use. The Ohlins are the go-to answer for dual-purpose cars without sacrificing quality or reliability.
I also opted for new vs. used shocks to postpone the added expense and downtime of an inevitable rebuild.
The used KWs aren't bad, but the Ohlins is probably just a better choice if you can afford the additional up-front cost.
As for spring rates, you may want to look in to slightly higher rates depending on how smooth your courses and roads are. I'm running 650/700 on my STU (245-width 200TW tires) Ohlins setup and it handles daily driving just fine. I'll probably be experimenting with higher spring rates later this season.
I also opted for new vs. used shocks to postpone the added expense and downtime of an inevitable rebuild.
The used KWs aren't bad, but the Ohlins is probably just a better choice if you can afford the additional up-front cost.
As for spring rates, you may want to look in to slightly higher rates depending on how smooth your courses and roads are. I'm running 650/700 on my STU (245-width 200TW tires) Ohlins setup and it handles daily driving just fine. I'll probably be experimenting with higher spring rates later this season.
Jun 23, 2015, 02:35 PM
#10
Evolving Member
I went to Chad for the Ohlins and love 'em. He set me up with the 10/10 springs and the Perrin PSRS as well. I didn't want to go too low (steep driveway), so no RCK. Sways are still OEM. Car is primarily used for HPDE, no autox and not really a DD.
Jun 23, 2015, 04:58 PM
#12
I bought used AST 5100s and regret every dime of them. They are good by themselves but was misled on their condition and will now be spending enough on a rebuild to have purchased them brand new without any of the hassle. Save your money; save your regret.
Jun 23, 2015, 05:08 PM
#13
EvoM Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
With whats been said, I've decided to stick with the Ohlins, no its just a matter of spring rates..
I just can't wrap my head around using same springs front and rear on the 8/9 chassis. The OEM springs are 25% stiffer in the rear. That difference gives a given spring frequency, and gives the car its handling characteristics (along side swaybars and suspension geometry). It is stiffer in the rear to account for the slower motion ratio of the rear shock, which changes the effective rate of the spring on the wheel. Yes, you can make up for it with sway bars, but sway bars effect balance by reducing traction (mostly).
I just see the 10/10 springs and stiffer rear bar changing the way the car handles.
I just can't wrap my head around using same springs front and rear on the 8/9 chassis. The OEM springs are 25% stiffer in the rear. That difference gives a given spring frequency, and gives the car its handling characteristics (along side swaybars and suspension geometry). It is stiffer in the rear to account for the slower motion ratio of the rear shock, which changes the effective rate of the spring on the wheel. Yes, you can make up for it with sway bars, but sway bars effect balance by reducing traction (mostly).
I just see the 10/10 springs and stiffer rear bar changing the way the car handles.
Last edited by letsgetthisdone; Jun 23, 2015 at 05:15 PM.
Jun 23, 2015, 05:46 PM
#14
I'm on Ohlins and started off with the 8k/10k then did a 10k/650# both on stock valving and now have them revalved for 650#/800#. My car is my daily driver and auto-x toy and the roads around here are far from smooth especially after this past winter we had. Now I do swap on my Bilsteins for the winter but other than that rock the Ohlins the rest of the year and they are phenomenal as a dual purpose shock. I was thinking the ride was going to suck after my recent upping of rates and the revalve but have been presently surprised.
Personally I wouldn't run a square setup however I do admit that I've yet to try it so maybe Im missing out on a good thing. But I love the balance of the car as is and feel a square setup is only going to induce more understeer. As a track car to some that is preferred but in my case being that I auto-x it I like to make the back dance; it suits my driving style.
A pair of springs are cheap; its the revalve that costs money. If I were you I would keep the 10's on the front and pick up a pair of 12k Swifts or 650# Hyperco/ Eibach throw them on the rear with the stock valving and see if that suits you well. If you want more spring throw the rears on the front get some even stiffer springs for the rears and at the very least revalve the rears. That was essentially my progression however I started off with the stock springs (flipped) and ended up revalving all 4 since they were about due for a service anyway.
Personally I wouldn't run a square setup however I do admit that I've yet to try it so maybe Im missing out on a good thing. But I love the balance of the car as is and feel a square setup is only going to induce more understeer. As a track car to some that is preferred but in my case being that I auto-x it I like to make the back dance; it suits my driving style.
A pair of springs are cheap; its the revalve that costs money. If I were you I would keep the 10's on the front and pick up a pair of 12k Swifts or 650# Hyperco/ Eibach throw them on the rear with the stock valving and see if that suits you well. If you want more spring throw the rears on the front get some even stiffer springs for the rears and at the very least revalve the rears. That was essentially my progression however I started off with the stock springs (flipped) and ended up revalving all 4 since they were about due for a service anyway.
