griceiv

iTrader: (2)

yeah, it's just unfortunate that the Evo is getting the short end of the stick on this one.

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure it's hard not to, and probably rarely done, but you really shouldnt play favorites on the advisory committee.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

yea, i guess this whole, open ecu & boost tuning via ECU because it's unenforceable seems a bit silly. if you're going to open boost, open it. this is a half-rule because they don't want to dive in in the first place. makes no sense. pull the ECU rule entirely and throw the MCS into STU, which is what is happening anyway. otherwise the STAC wants to pick up "hot hatches" that tune boost via ECU tuning only? what? what about a cobb? is that "hardware" or ecu tuning?

what??? seems like the opposite of what is happening here. rules are set for cars that tune boost via ECU over cars that tune boost via other "enforceable" methods. so essentially certain cars, particularly newer ones, get open boost, via open ECU, and older ones get nothing. regardless of what car i personally am driving this makes zero sense.

Butt Dyno

iTrader: (10)

Thank you for explaining Appreciate the transparency, just bummed to be in the minority.

Jim3142

iTrader: (2)

To get to the balance that Marshall was referring to, this route makes the most sense. Unfortunately, the Evo 8/9 gets the short end on this one, but I'm not convinced that this automatically puts these cars into backmarker status


Definitely appreciate the transparency, thanks Marshall

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

just to be clear, the balance here is, some cars get open boost via open ecu, and some cars don't, and therefore some cars get added power and some don't, b/c in general we want to keep the power in ST low-ish?

Jim3142

iTrader: (2)

The balance is - avoiding unenforceable ECU tunes while not dramatically increasing HP/TQ for turbo cars. Will it work? Not sure - there are definitely some cars in STU that can benefit from increased boost via ECU tuning, but this is the simplest way that I can see to open up ECU tuning without allowing even more power increases through additional hardware allowances.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

right, that's what was stated, but a lot of new cars can tune boost completely via the ecu. case in point, the focus rs.. for certain cars only, there will be a "dramatic" power increase. so again, breaking it down, i'm assuming the balance is between letting all turbo cars have open boost, vs letting just the ones that can do it through the ecu have open boost. in aggregate, i guess there is less power out there for st.

yes, the evo gets the short end of the stick here, but also - makes no sense. this is not an equal rule that impacts all cars, it only helps a select few. totally the opposite of making the rules right for the class.

MrAWD

Just to be devil advocate here, extra allowance in anything related to boost is not fair to N/A cars too...

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

I agree - which is why they never touched these ecu rules before. seems the MCS was the straw that broke the camel's back. there are two classes this rule impacts:

STH - blank slate for now, set the rules right to start. if you honestly actually want to pick up hot hatches that participate, you need open boost, not open ecu. honestly, I think that was one of the main detractors from the boost buggie only evo/sti STU class. there are a hundred different ways to control boost, why limit it to specifically ecu? do what's right for all cars, not a subset.

STU - frankly I think STU is better off not touching boost at all. throw the MCS in here and see how it does. if you are gonna touch boost though, just put it to open boost, instead of open boost only for cars that control boost via ecu. doubtful the Z or vette will be toppled in this class, but I guess we'll see. or since scca likes playing with tire widths, chop off another 10mm for turbo cars that have open boost. etc.

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

I'm also confused at why you think you cant increase boost on an evo with the stock solenoid? I know we did back in the day. It wasn't perfect, but with a downpipe, LICP, and flash back in like 2010 my car did 330 whp on ERs dyno with 91 octane. Everything else on the engine was 100% stock.

You're probably going to hit an octane limit before the BCS limit.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

you ran in STU with a LICP? i don't think that's legal to begin with, and a big difference on the 4g63s... re: the bcs & octane, that's simply not true... otherwise no one would be using mbc, ebcs, hybrid boost, etc. on stock turbos pump gas.. you've been playing in SM too long

I don't see the open ECU/boost rule changing. I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter. when it comes in 2018, and we see how things go, perhaps tunes will change, one way or another.

this is just as anecdotal, but a buddy in a '16 FoRS picked up 50whp/60wtq on pretty much tune alone, which allows full control of boost. excited to see how much it opens up with exhaust, intake, etc. FoRS guys as well are asking for the '18 FoRS to be excluded from STU - once that's ruled on, I may be looking to pick one up! Development has been progressing quickly on these cars. ohlins are coming

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

LICP was just on the car when I bought it but I never ran STU. I ran ASP for that year. Regardless, it was very few changes (one I guess not ST legal, but not that significant) and still made significant more power than stock and more than full prep STU evos currently make (if I have my info correct).

No one bothers to push the stock BCS because its hasn't been necessary. Now that it is, I'm sure you can find tricks to make it work. If you really cared about that last bit of power then there are legal tricks that can be done.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

def true, there are "tricks" to pretty much get the car to boost to whatever without touching boost. always safer with an MBC as a hard line limit though. I digress, we'll see how this plays out next year - I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing what the FoRS's can do with full boost & ST legal bolt ons.

griceiv

iTrader: (2)

That's a bingo!

also keep in mind that classing decisions going forward are going to take the 'unlimited boost' performance into account. I could see a situation where a currently classed car could get excluded if the ecu rule gives them too much power. So be careful what you ask for.