Has technology made it possible to race 500HP EVO Safely?
Nov 24, 2017, 02:30 AM
#16
), go with a faster base platform.
Nov 24, 2017, 07:33 AM
#17
Oiling and Heat are the only things limiting you from running 500hp. Thats a lot of heat generated in both air volume through the IC to cool and heat to shed from oil/coolant. Will definitely need some thoughtful work on radiator shrouding and upgraded oil cooling.
Also, as discussed in the oil pressure thread, 500hp will definitely need oiling improvements. There are plenty of options and details to be done for improving this though. Crank scrapers, OFH porting, Oil return porting, Crankcase evac, etc.. But the most important thing would be a proper dry sump.
Im sure you could get away with an expanded wet sump pan and perhaps a open accusump but if you want to know the oil is getting where it needs to be a dry sump is cheaper than a new motor.
Also, as discussed in the oil pressure thread, 500hp will definitely need oiling improvements. There are plenty of options and details to be done for improving this though. Crank scrapers, OFH porting, Oil return porting, Crankcase evac, etc.. But the most important thing would be a proper dry sump.
Im sure you could get away with an expanded wet sump pan and perhaps a open accusump but if you want to know the oil is getting where it needs to be a dry sump is cheaper than a new motor.
Nov 24, 2017, 07:36 AM
#18
The cost of dry sump always forces my budget to more acute matters. But during rebuild time, perhaps it's time to do it right. I never get the sense there is a true system for the EVO? More like 2nd thought systems. Am I wrong? Haven't put a lot of research into it. Who has experience with one?
Nov 24, 2017, 07:56 AM
#19
Loving this thread and appreciate the feedback with proven good ideas. However, we have yet to uncover any parts that are improved and better than what everyone has been doing since 2003. Agree with oil cooling and keeping things cool. I need a trans cooler...thanks. "-)
Keeping this thread on track, lets assume we are all dedicated track car owners. Focused on just the motor over 500whp. I should have said 600whp+, but the point is the same.
So, with all the engine building technology, coatings, materials, cuts/grooves, oiling,....what's new and proven on our 15 year old blocks? I need to rebuild soon and would love to do it right with latest tech and tricks for a racing motor with hopes it will last at higher HP levels.
Part of our problem is 90% of builders are drag race shops. Nothing could be further from 25 minutes at 10/10th's driving.
Keeping this thread on track, lets assume we are all dedicated track car owners. Focused on just the motor over 500whp. I should have said 600whp+, but the point is the same.
So, with all the engine building technology, coatings, materials, cuts/grooves, oiling,....what's new and proven on our 15 year old blocks? I need to rebuild soon and would love to do it right with latest tech and tricks for a racing motor with hopes it will last at higher HP levels.
Part of our problem is 90% of builders are drag race shops. Nothing could be further from 25 minutes at 10/10th's driving.
Nov 24, 2017, 08:01 AM
#20
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
A dry sump is not $4k dollars. Most of the kits only come with the hard parts. You have to supply fittings, and whole lot of VERY expensive racing hose ($50-$70/ft) to complete the setup. Typically more around 6-7 when your done. And it’s not a very viable option for a street car.
Nov 24, 2017, 09:57 AM
#21
A dry sump is not $4k dollars. Most of the kits only come with the hard parts. You have to supply fittings, and whole lot of VERY expensive racing hose ($50-$70/ft) to complete the setup. Typically more around 6-7 when your done. And it €™s not a very viable option for a street car.
Nov 24, 2017, 12:10 PM
#22
Thermal Barrier Coatings:
Here is a technological update found in DSPORT tech section.
http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/educat...or-more-power/
Thermal-barrier coatings are made of metallic ceramics. They are the most sophisticated of the coatings and are applied by plasma spray consisting of multiple layers. Plasma spraying is a process where the media is shot at very high temperatures and velocities so some bonding occurs at the molecular level, helping the material to bond better overall. Some piston multi-layer coatings have an insulating layer, a heat conducting layer and a barrier layer.
Here is a technological update found in DSPORT tech section.
http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/educat...or-more-power/
Thermal-barrier coatings are made of metallic ceramics. They are the most sophisticated of the coatings and are applied by plasma spray consisting of multiple layers. Plasma spraying is a process where the media is shot at very high temperatures and velocities so some bonding occurs at the molecular level, helping the material to bond better overall. Some piston multi-layer coatings have an insulating layer, a heat conducting layer and a barrier layer.
Nov 24, 2017, 12:21 PM
#23
Even if you just have ER build you something its still gonna be cheaper than AMS which you're paying a huge markup for.
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Driv200 (Nov 25, 2017)
Nov 25, 2017, 06:28 AM
#24
A dry sump is not $4k dollars. Most of the kits only come with the hard parts. You have to supply fittings, and whole lot of VERY expensive racing hose ($50-$70/ft) to complete the setup. Typically more around 6-7 when your done. And it’s not a very viable option for a street car.
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Driv200 (Nov 25, 2017)
Nov 25, 2017, 08:07 AM
#25
If there are any other engineers here that want to partner up to design and make a proper dry sump kit, I can make the parts as well as handle some of the design. I'm busy enough these days with various Evo parts but seems like it does seem like there needs to be something done about the cost of entry into it.
Nov 25, 2017, 12:14 PM
#26
If there are any other engineers here that want to partner up to design and make a proper dry sump kit, I can make the parts as well as handle some of the design. I'm busy enough these days with various Evo parts but seems like it does seem like there needs to be something done about the cost of entry into it.
Nov 25, 2017, 03:16 PM
#27
Dry Sump definitely needed for us EVO track guys. And many more of us would have one already if it were more affordable.
AMS mentions somewhere in their marketing about channeling and grooving for oil in their blocks? Not a lot of detail, but this what separates some builds from others and the updates I am trying to learn about with this thread.
AMS mentions somewhere in their marketing about channeling and grooving for oil in their blocks? Not a lot of detail, but this what separates some builds from others and the updates I am trying to learn about with this thread.
Nov 25, 2017, 03:34 PM
#28
If there are any other engineers here that want to partner up to design and make a proper dry sump kit, I can make the parts as well as handle some of the design. I'm busy enough these days with various Evo parts but seems like it does seem like there needs to be something done about the cost of entry into it.
I have a trashed front case that I could get measurements from, I think that would be the hardest part to make. Magnus makes one but they want like $900 for it.
The other challenge would be the pan, I was honestly just thinking of buying an ARE pan, but haven't looked into price: https://drysump.com/index.php/oil-pa...-sump-pan-1418.
Everything else I don't think would be too hard, such as brackets and pulleys. I've tried looking around for a good reliable, easy on the wallet pump from a reputable company but haven't had any luck. I've found it hard to beat the price of most kits out there honestly. The Moroso pump alone that MAP uses in their kit is around $1000, a pan I would guess would be $700-900. Then you still got to do all the brackets, pulleys, belt, lines, fitting, reservoir, remote mount filter (I don't think we can keep the stock OFH can we?).
Nov 26, 2017, 05:59 AM
#29
Evolved Member
Yeah, by the time you’ve spent enough money to address the brakes, aero, wider body, engine, dry sump, etc., you will be into your evo for more money than the guy with the LS7 C5, and still probably not as fast or reliable. It seems there is a cost/benefit sweet spot for the Evo around 300-450 whp. My own thinking is that when I’ve maxed out my driving at that power level, to either switch to time trials where things are more equalized between cars, or, for HPDE (i.e., unlimited class ), go with a faster base platform.
), go with a faster base platform.
Nov 27, 2017, 06:38 AM
#30
Why would you want to do DE's with a 500hp Evo? If you want to really enjoy driving, get yourself a simple car, MUCH more rewarding. Be fast in a slow car, not be fast in a fast car.
Instead of dumping 100k (which is what you will have to spend) to get an evo to 500hp track day car, spend 20k on a BMW track car, and 70k on an Evo. Only bring evo out when you want to bust a fast lap, and spend the rest of your time learning with the BMW. I guarantee you will be faster in the end.
Instead of dumping 100k (which is what you will have to spend) to get an evo to 500hp track day car, spend 20k on a BMW track car, and 70k on an Evo. Only bring evo out when you want to bust a fast lap, and spend the rest of your time learning with the BMW. I guarantee you will be faster in the end.