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Has technology made it possible to race 500HP EVO Safely?

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Has technology made it possible to race 500HP EVO Safely?

 
Old Nov 21, 2017, 04:34 PM
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Has technology made it possible to race 500HP EVO Safely?

Limiting this discussion to just the motor:

Any veteran of road racing knows 300awhp used to be plenty for a 20 minute session or made for a great competition car. Seems like today, cars start at 500hp. If doing DE's or fun track days, the HP numbers are even greater. Has technology finally given us EVO guys the ability to run 500+HP cars safely for 20-25 minute sessions?

If you have a built motor with all the right parts, is it worth it to just have 400hp? For the same crazy built motor and all the right parts, why not trust in the build? Or is it impossible still today for parts to last? Is longevity possible at high HP levels? Which at some point begs the question....why do more than bolt-ons and throw away replacement parts?

For me, I'm already in the no return category of stupid money growing on trees.

As a competitor in any type of event, I don't think the old 400HP ceiling applies to winning anymore. J

What you guys say?
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 12:34 AM
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Is it 500HP or 500WHP? What about the WTQ? Cause I believe if you keep the WTQ sub 400 you can have the WHP above 500 but that doesn't seem how you'd want it right? Also how many sessions would you want it to hold up reliably? And what do you consider reliable?

I've kept my car in the low 300s WHP not only cause I don't push it as is, but really I like being able to drive to the HPDE, get in 4-5 sessions without doing more than adding a few fluids there and drive it back home all on regular pump gas (Which it's done for years except last year when an 12 year old OEM coolant hose finally gave up). That would define reliable for me.
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 04:39 AM
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I already started a thread on this exact topic:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...wer-track.html
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 06:29 AM
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Codgi: It's 500WHP or more and same with TQ. Dedicated track day car, but street legal too. My interest is to hear feedback on building a race motor correctly with todays technology and longevity possibilities. Is technology and imporvements in parts today offering more than they were in the mid 2000's.

EVO8LTW: Your thread asked what horsepower to run safely...detuned. Good question. Your thread prompted me to ask the opposite....can we stop limiting our horsepower and actually have a dependable high horsepower (500WHP+ cars) and rely on improvements and technology. Or are we stuck with the same parts and experiences of all the early EVO builds with no improvements.

Define longevity: Spend your wad and don't expect to rebuild your motor in 5 years no matter what you throw at it on 500WHP+ ....NASA, OPTIMA, HILL CLIMB, AX....

Thank you for post

Last edited by Driv200; Nov 22, 2017 at 06:29 AM. Reason: correction
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 06:40 AM
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I have ran my Evo IX at 450whp and 400wtq for going three years with NASA. I have yet to have an issue.

Stock block, head, cams
FP 71hta, bolt-ons, E85
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 07:34 AM
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With proper tuning, and cooling (oil cooler, radiator) it'll be fine at that level. You'll want to monitor trans temp, and get a cooler for that as well if it needs it.
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 08:05 AM
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Oiling and Heat are the only things limiting you from running 500hp. Thats a lot of heat generated in both air volume through the IC to cool and heat to shed from oil/coolant. Will definitely need some thoughtful work on radiator shrouding and upgraded oil cooling.

Also, as discussed in the oil pressure thread, 500hp will definitely need oiling improvements. There are plenty of options and details to be done for improving this though. Crank scrapers, OFH porting, Oil return porting, Crankcase evac, etc.. But the most important thing would be a proper dry sump.

Im sure you could get away with an expanded wet sump pan and perhaps a open accusump but if you want to know the oil is getting where it needs to be a dry sump is cheaper than a new motor.
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 12:53 PM
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The problem with oil cooling is directing enough air at/through the oilcooler. If you have it mounted in the front of the car, ideally there should be some shroud or air guides to channel the air through it and not around it.

Also with more power, more brake wear is inevitable. So track pads, rotors, and air guides should be included. Unless you are just talking about the motor? But each system for the most part will have more strain as the power goes up.
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dallas J View Post
Also, as discussed in the oil pressure thread, 500hp will definitely need oiling improvements.
This may be a dumb question, but why does more HP require more oiling improvements? I would have thought that cornering forces were the issue for oiling, not HP. Or are you thinking that the motor can deal better with partial starvation if it isn't pushing as much power?
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
This may be a dumb question, but why does more HP require more oiling improvements? I would have thought that cornering forces were the issue for oiling, not HP. Or are you thinking that the motor can deal better with partial starvation if it isn't pushing as much power?
Exactly the last sentence. The more power you’re making, the more vital consistent lubrication becomes. It’s pretty vital regardless, but more power certainly ups the requirement.
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Old Nov 22, 2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Driv200 View Post
Codgi: It's 500WHP or more and same with TQ. Dedicated track day car, but street legal too. My interest is to hear feedback on building a race motor correctly with todays technology and longevity possibilities. Is technology and imporvements in parts today offering more than they were in the mid 2000's.

EVO8LTW: Your thread asked what horsepower to run safely...detuned. Good question. Your thread prompted me to ask the opposite....can we stop limiting our horsepower and actually have a dependable high horsepower (500WHP+ cars) and rely on improvements and technology. Or are we stuck with the same parts and experiences of all the early EVO builds with no improvements.

Define longevity: Spend your wad and don't expect to rebuild your motor in 5 years no matter what you throw at it on 500WHP+ ....NASA, OPTIMA, HILL CLIMB, AX....

Thank you for post
Ok thanks for the clarifications. The bold would be especially epic if doable.
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dallas J View Post
Im sure you could get away with an expanded wet sump pan and perhaps a open accusump but if you want to know the oil is getting where it needs to be a dry sump is cheaper than a new motor.
100% correct. a lot of people balk at buying a $4000+ dry sump system, but it's cheap insurance in my opinion. i really don't want to buy another $8000 motor every year.
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 06:08 PM
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you can reliably do 3x3 laps in a time attack 900hp car if you are willing to pull it down after every session :P
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Old Nov 23, 2017, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by EVO8LTW View Post
This may be a dumb question, but why does more HP require more oiling improvements? I would have thought that cornering forces were the issue for oiling, not HP. Or are you thinking that the motor can deal better with partial starvation if it isn't pushing as much power?
Already said, but exactly as others have said. More power and heat just drops that margin of error.
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Old Nov 24, 2017, 02:11 AM
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I know how to get 500whp out of my EVO NP!

BUT How can an EVO that HAS 500whp stay in almost redline for at least 30 minutes?
What are the magic parts?
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