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Brembo BBK 4 piston or 6 piston

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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 10:42 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by ayoustin
Which gen CTS are you talking about? The first gen wouldn't really be an improvement over stock other than the fact they're absurdly cheap. The second gen would probably be an improvement but I need to go back and see how much they cost. Definitely cheaper than a BBK but I remember them being fairly more spendy than the first gen calipers.

Edit: Looks like the vette calipers are actually pretty cheap. The second gen V calipers not so much.

Vette: https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2571-Original-Equipment-Caliper/dp/B007QBJPG6

Second gen V: https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2522-Original-Equipment-Passenger/dp/B0055AT7VS

Vette calipers even cheaper here jeez: https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...liper-22799628
Those C6 vette calipers suck. All the track vette guys upgrade from OEM when they get serious. Biggest complaint is flex.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 10:49 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by razorlab
Those C6 vette calipers suck. All the track vette guys upgrade from OEM when they get serious. Biggest complaint is flex.
Biggest question is do they flex more than our stock calipers though? I'd be surprised if they did. Since they have smaller pistons there is more meat for the caliper body itself. Not only that but they have about 6% less piston area so that would also firm the pedal up a bit. I'm sure the vette guys have plenty of complaints with them but they're also stopping a bigger car with them.

But the biggest point of this is an affordable brake upgrade. Do I want an Alcon/AP/Stoptech brake kit? Hell yea I do, can I justify it, not at all.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ayoustin
I'm sure the vette guys have plenty of complaints with them but they're also stopping a bigger car with them.
The C6 Z06 vette weighs less than Evos. Approx 31XXlbs, and way closer to 50/50 f/r than an Evo.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 11:57 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by razorlab
The C6 Z06 vette weighs less than Evos. Approx 31XXlbs, and way closer to 50/50 f/r than an Evo.
I thought they were closer to 3300 oops. Either way, unless they're getting atrocious pad taper it's still an upgrade for us.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 12:12 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by ayoustin


I thought they were closer to 3300 oops. Either way, unless they're getting atrocious pad taper it's still an upgrade for us.
The C6 Z06 is different than a normal C6. It has an aluminum frame and balsa wood/CF floors. It's something like 150-175lbs lighter than the standard C6. Also dry sump, fixed roof, etc.

I still don't understand how you know those calipers are an upgrade? I've shared some factual real-world experience from people I track with that they are subpar calipers.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 02:54 PM
  #21  
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in my humble opinion it is the discs that need upgrading first not the calipers... they just need more thermal capacity ( as in more mass and heat rejection)
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 04:01 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by razorlab
I still don't understand how you know those calipers are an upgrade? I've shared some factual real-world experience from people I track with that they are subpar calipers.
All you've said is guys don't like them and they upgrade. I wouldn't really call that a fact. You haven't shared anything that shows numbers or the severity of the flex. My basis for thinking they're better is that they're from the top of the line sports car that GM made that's only about 5 years old vs our 10+ year old hopped up econobox...


Originally Posted by kikiturbo
in my humble opinion it is the discs that need upgrading first not the calipers... they just need more thermal capacity ( as in more mass and heat rejection)
This is the big reason. We are in the talks of using a 380x35mm disk which would be a huge jump in thermal mass and good improvement for braking power.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 04:15 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ayoustin
My basis for thinking they're better is that they're from the top of the line sports car that GM made that's only about 5 years old vs our 10+ year old hopped up econobox...


Okay, so just assumptions based on no real-world feedback. Okay, good luck!

P.S. The C6 Z06 is 12 years old, same as the Evo 9.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 04:30 PM
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btw, the C7 Z06/GS calipers are these:
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2489-Original-Equipment-Assembly/dp/B00559OI1S/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_263_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QS6B7J44QVR6NKWEBDRM https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2489-Original-Equipment-Assembly/dp/B00559OI1S/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_263_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QS6B7J44QVR6NKWEBDRM
and reportedly a much improved version over the C6 calipers

They are massive



The Z51 calipers are much smaller. Both are made by brembo I believe

Last edited by razorlab; Oct 13, 2018 at 04:35 PM.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 05:29 PM
  #25  
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We're looking at using ctsv calipers. They use the same pistons but are about half the price.

Do you know of any testing that's been done on those calipers?

380mm is about as big as we can go and still use an 18" wheel.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 06:32 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ayoustin

Do you know of any testing that's been done on those calipers?

What kind of testing are you talking about it? Using them on track or lab testing?

Track testing, yes on the C6 Z06 calipers. The 2nd gen CTSV calipers, no idea as I have yet to see in person anyone to even track one of those 4,300lb boat anchors.

The 3rd gen CTSV use the same calipers as the C7 Z06/GS but different mounting points: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-172-2695

I think you might have a hard time fitting 380mm discs under 18" wheels.

My Trophy's use 355mm and they have been killer with 540whp and 3600lbs.

Last edited by razorlab; Oct 13, 2018 at 06:38 PM.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 06:43 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by razorlab
What kind of testing are you talking about it? Using them on track or lab testing?

Track testing, yes on the C6 Z06 calipers. The 2nd gen CTSV calipers, no idea as I have yet to see in person anyone to even track one of those 4,300lb boat anchors.

The 3rd gen CTSV use the same calipers as the C7 Z06/GS but different mounting points: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-172-2695

I think you might have a hard time fitting 380mm discs under 18" wheels.

My Trophy's use 355mm and they have been killer with 540whp and 3600lbs.
Testing I mean like does anyone have vids or photos showing flex? I spent a little bit of time earier while I was home but couldn't find anyone complaining about caliper flex.

There are some guys who run 18s on their Vs. It's a very tight fit and some 18s might have too small of barrels but some fit.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 06:44 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by ayoustin

Testing I mean like does anyone have vids or photos showing flex? I spent a little bit of time earier while I was home but couldn't find anyone complaining about caliper flex.

There are some guys who run 18s on their Vs. It's a very tight fit and some 18s might have too small of barrels but some fit.

*shrug* Do you have videos of your evo calipers flexing?

As another data point, my Evo 10 oem brembo setup was worlds better than my Evo 8 brembo setup. I never got the same flexy feeling with my 10 oem setup but they still weren't up to the task of advanced group and more horsepower. They would start losing braking power very quickly and pull to the side after they had too much heat in them.

Upgraded to Trophys and night and day difference. In fact I am thinking of going down in brake pad compound because they feel like too much now (same ST47 compounds used on both oem brembo and trophy kit)
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 09:48 PM
  #29  
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I cannot find a single thing online of people having legitimate problems with the factory C6 Z06 calipers. Once again, this isn't supposed to be a be all end all braking solution, merely an affordable step in the right direction for guys who can't or don't want to fork out $3k+ for a set of brakes.

I don't see such a setup being a step backwards in any measure from stock except for consumable cost which should be on par with anyone who's already running 2 piece rotors.

I appreciate your input and if you have anything else to share I'd love to hear it. Please don't think I'm being dismissive of what you're saying, I just can't find anything that supports what you're saying.
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Old Oct 13, 2018 | 10:37 PM
  #30  
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For anyone curious, here's what a 380mm disc w/the caddy caliper looks like under an 18" wheel:

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