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hey JRR where are those videos that I can look at to learn how to tune again? my computer resetted itself today and I lost almost everything except my roms.
and does anyone know any good tuning threads that list everything step by step on how to tune an ecu? heres my problem. I start the car, the afr's drop from 13 to 10 and when I let it idle or warm up the afr's go back up to the 14.5 to 5.5 area, and when I spool up the turbo the afr's drop to 10 or lower. And today I was leaning out for some reason? not sure why it got as low as to 17 when I was driving so I spooled up the turbo to get the fuel in the engine, it gets rich and then it goes back up the the 15 area. Not sure whats going on? im wondering if its my second O2 sensor since its not installed and im running a check engine light. I think im going to buy the tactrix cable next week when I get paid so I can tune or at least flash a better rom to work with. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8507329)
hey JRR where are those videos that I can look at to learn how to tune again? my computer resetted itself today and I lost almost everything except my roms.
and does anyone know any good tuning threads that list everything step by step on how to tune an ecu? heres my problem. I start the car, the afr's drop from 13 to 10 and when I let it idle or warm up the afr's go back up to the 14.5 to 5.5 area, and when I spool up the turbo the afr's drop to 10 or lower. And today I was leaning out for some reason? not sure why it got as low as to 17 when I was driving so I spooled up the turbo to get the fuel in the engine, it gets rich and then it goes back up the the 15 area. Not sure whats going on? im wondering if its my second O2 sensor since its not installed and im running a check engine light. I think im going to buy the tactrix cable next week when I get paid so I can tune or at least flash a better rom to work with. Injectors are not scaled correctly and possible latency issues. This will cause the computer to dump fuel in while its in open loop then correct it soon as the engine warms back up. This can also cause the computer to try yanking fuel out of the low trim too much causing lean spots at the transition point where the computer switches back to opwn loop. Resolution: Reset you battery for 1 minute to clear fuel trims. Put your car's into full time open loop by setting the open loop load settings to 10 across the board. This is low enough the car will never see closed loop. Next verify your injector CC setting. Once your positive its pretty close say a 440cc injector should be rated near 416cc at 42psi of fuel pressure like we run. If its lean drop the latency of the injectors by selecting the whole right hand side and using the "*" key to multiply it by some percentage say we see something pretty bad like 12AFR at idle lets increase the the latency to lean it out by "*" then using a value like 0.85 so we removed 15% of the latency and thus 15% of the possible fuel the injector will try to add to the engine. The opposite is true with 1.15 we would add 15% of latency and thus 15% more fuel. Once the injector is stable at 14.7AFR its time for a drive. First try a short drive with the car in open loop. See if you get lean spikes or rich spikes comparatively to whats actually in the AFRMap value at the time. If your rich then you need to increase the CC value of the injector and visa versa is true. Once you get it running fair in the open loop disable it and run a test drive. |
Originally Posted by HornstarBU
(Post 8499739)
I tell ya, the real part that confuses me, is how to handle such a drastic change. I mean, we turbo the car, then start to tune, and everyone says "small adjustments"....but when you turbo, you've gotta pull like 5 degrees or more of timing from the entire "boost" region, and you've got to richen it up all the way through there too. Without a starting point, which you have with 03's map, it would be hell I think to get it all ironed out. I know the guide to tuning an evo, and the videos are all good but....is the community of turbo lancers too small to make a few guides for us and tuning the turbo specifically a waste of time? I think one real nice how to tune the turbo lancer sticky should happen at some point. Also, once you go pistons/rods, then it's a real tough deal...upping boost until you see serious numbers, and you just keep making the adjustments I guess. But...how do you know what to shoot for, like...20psi or more, where is the line drawn at which you know engine failure will follow? never known, just always out there and when you hit it...you know?
The easy path to turbo is to simply copy your low timing over to the high timing map and work from there. Then take you low timing map and start removing timing in the running area like 5 degrees to be extra safe if it ever gets there. The evo guide to tuning is perfectly relevant to any vehicle. The actual tuning notes and concepts really don't change per vehicle really just specific settings like maximum timing, boost, rpm, and AFR where its safe to run. Since you guys are relatively high compression you probably want to be on the safe side of AFR like 11AFR about with premium fuel and maybe even lower if you hit low octane. Timing on stroker motors is LOWER than on destroked motors plain and simple. Do not try to run evo timing right off the bat you will probably destroy something. Work up to it and see if you run into a point where you don't gain torque from incrasing timing. Once you do or knock you pull back a degree or two for safety. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8507329)
hey JRR where are those videos that I can look at to learn how to tune again? my computer resetted itself today and I lost almost everything except my roms.
and does anyone know any good tuning threads that list everything step by step on how to tune an ecu? heres my problem. I start the car, the afr's drop from 13 to 10 and when I let it idle or warm up the afr's go back up to the 14.5 to 5.5 area, and when I spool up the turbo the afr's drop to 10 or lower. And today I was leaning out for some reason? not sure why it got as low as to 17 when I was driving so I spooled up the turbo to get the fuel in the engine, it gets rich and then it goes back up the the 15 area. Not sure whats going on? im wondering if its my second O2 sensor since its not installed and im running a check engine light. I think im going to buy the tactrix cable next week when I get paid so I can tune or at least flash a better rom to work with. |
Originally Posted by 03lances
(Post 8507591)
You still dont have a cable? Lol I told ya bro, my latest injector settings are different than the rom you have of mine I will send them to you when I have some time so when you get your cable you can try them. For some reason quite a few people that I have talked with have had to scale there 440s to around 360 range including myself I dont know why and I tried running the recommended scaling but I could never get it to work I had to put it at 360.
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Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8508960)
I'm surprised you guys just don't go with evo injectors as we already have settings for them. Don't they fit?
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Originally Posted by 03lances
(Post 8507591)
You still dont have a cable? Lol I told ya bro, my latest injector settings are different than the rom you have of mine I will send them to you when I have some time so when you get your cable you can try them. For some reason quite a few people that I have talked with have had to scale there 440s to around 360 range including myself I dont know why and I tried running the recommended scaling but I could never get it to work I had to put it at 360.
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Actually looks like I already sent these to ya via pms june 29th lol but here ya go these are the injector settings I am running
4.69v--- 2.592 7.03v ---2.208 9.38v----1.2 11.72v---0.744 14.06v---0.6 16.41v---0.6 18.68v----0.144 Scaling is at 360 |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8507497)
Problem:
Injectors are not scaled correctly and possible latency issues. This will cause the computer to dump fuel in while its in open loop then correct it soon as the engine warms back up. This can also cause the computer to try yanking fuel out of the low trim too much causing lean spots at the transition point where the computer switches back to opwn loop. Resolution: Reset you battery for 1 minute to clear fuel trims. Put your car's into full time open loop by setting the open loop load settings to 10 across the board. This is low enough the car will never see closed loop. Next verify your injector CC setting. Once your positive its pretty close say a 440cc injector should be rated near 416cc at 42psi of fuel pressure like we run. If its lean drop the latency of the injectors by selecting the whole right hand side and using the "*" key to multiply it by some percentage say we see something pretty bad like 12AFR at idle lets increase the the latency to lean it out by "*" then using a value like 0.85 so we removed 15% of the latency and thus 15% of the possible fuel the injector will try to add to the engine. The opposite is true with 1.15 we would add 15% of latency and thus 15% more fuel. Once the injector is stable at 14.7AFR its time for a drive. First try a short drive with the car in open loop. See if you get lean spikes or rich spikes comparatively to whats actually in the AFRMap value at the time. If your rich then you need to increase the CC value of the injector and visa versa is true. Once you get it running fair in the open loop disable it and run a test drive. |
Originally Posted by 03lances
(Post 8509324)
Actually looks like I already sent these to ya via pms june 29th lol but here ya go these are the injector settings I am running
4.69v--- 2.592 7.03v ---2.208 9.38v----1.2 11.72v---0.744 14.06v---0.6 16.41v---0.6 18.68v----0.144 Scaling is at 360 ok ill try these, i had to clear my messages because they were maxed out... the memory sucks but that doesnt matter. im ordering the cable next week I wish someone would let me borrow thiers and give them money to hold onto through paypal or something so I can get this car tuned I can switch those right now and make another copy saying flash this here and I will let you guys know whats up. last thing I need to learn is how to tune so if someone knows a dictionary of tuning words I can learn like open loop, close loop, maf scale etc that would be great stepping stones. thanks guys I will let you know how it goes in a week and a half taking the bike to work so the car can have a break |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8509336)
ok ill try these, i had to clear my messages because they were maxed out... the memory sucks but that doesnt matter. im ordering the cable next week I wish someone would let me borrow thiers and give them money to hold onto through paypal or something so I can get this car tuned
I can switch those right now and make another copy saying flash this here and I will let you guys know whats up. last thing I need to learn is how to tune so if someone knows a dictionary of tuning words I can learn like open loop, close loop, maf scale etc that would be great stepping stones. thanks guys I will let you know how it goes in a week and a half taking the bike to work so the car can have a break |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8509388)
the scaling only lets me go to 361?
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8509328)
yeah im still learning this tuning thing so most of the stuff im not really understanding, but I know how to chage things on the board. I know how to change the latency and injector scaling, the board thing is the hardest part for me and these open loops and close loops because I dont know what those mean. I will look at the map and see if I can grasp what your saying about doing the open load 10 settings.
Since a o2 sensor is only good at reading if the AFR is richer or leaner than 14.7 afr its not useful when trying to run the car at richer trims so the car goes into open loop. At open time it uses the maf sensor, air temp, voltage latency, and rpm to determine how much of fuel pulse the injectors give. When in closed loop the computer simply uses the above algorithm to get close and then see's if the car is rich or lean via the o2 sensor and makes adjustments. Therefore if you scaling is off the adjustments start getting extreme and when it finally goes back into open loop the adjustments still are in effect so it goes lean or rich then. make sense? |
Originally Posted by 03lances
(Post 8509439)
:confused: Post a screen shot, thats not right. Stock the value is 232 so somethings off
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8509686)
Open loop means the computer takes the input it has and guesses at the fuel it needs because the o2 sensor is OUT of the loop :P.
Since a o2 sensor is only good at reading if the AFR is richer or leaner than 14.7 afr its not useful when trying to run the car at richer trims so the car goes into open loop. At open time it uses the maf sensor, air temp, voltage latency, and rpm to determine how much of fuel pulse the injectors give. When in closed loop the computer simply uses the above algorithm to get close and then see's if the car is rich or lean via the o2 sensor and makes adjustments. Therefore if you scaling is off the adjustments start getting extreme and when it finally goes back into open loop the adjustments still are in effect so it goes lean or rich then. make sense? |
this one is easy bring up the screen you want and hit the print screen button. then go into like paint or something and "paste" it in there then save it and post it.
josh |
In a very basic understanding yes acceleration =open loop and deceleration or cruising = closed loop.
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8510013)
how do you post a screen shot? I tried copying and pasting but it doesnt seem to work. do I need a picture
so this is how im thinking it is, open loop is when the throttle is being pressed down, and closed loop is when the throttle stays the same or the throttle is left off? im understanding the meanings, but if this is correct then i got it The basic concept of pressing the gas down makes the car go into open loop is pretty true but realize it slightly more complex than that :). You know by now that airflow into the engine is basically load right? Well if you didn't yo do now. So the computer translates the airflow and compares that to the RPM and it generates a load number which is essentially the basis for fuel calculation. Now on the open loop load table it basically defines an area on the map we want to be in closed loop. Once the loads are above the table's defined limits then it goes into open loop. Easy no? |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8511116)
To post a screen shot press "print screen" which will take a photo of whatever you see on you computer. Then use your favorite picture editor to paste it into a new picture and crop away until you have only a picture of what you want left. Save as jpg make sure its under 100kb and upload it here.
The basic concept of pressing the gas down makes the car go into open loop is pretty true but realize it slightly more complex than that :). You know by now that airflow into the engine is basically load right? Well if you didn't yo do now. So the computer translates the airflow and compares that to the RPM and it generates a load number which is essentially the basis for fuel calculation. Now on the open loop load table it basically defines an area on the map we want to be in closed loop. Once the loads are above the table's defined limits then it goes into open loop. Easy no? |
never mind lol I got it hahaha wow thats awesome ok here is what I have,
anything that is low like open load low octane etc is on the bottom, and anything high is on top and the the injector scaling is there to http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...n121_/roms.jpg |
if you need to see it just zoom in on your computer by using ctrl + the plus button next to the numbers
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8512027)
if you need to see it just zoom in on your computer by using ctrl + the plus button next to the numbers
I'm confused why your low octane fuel map is actually leaner than your high octane map which the car should run off of. That scenario should be reversed. I find your open loop settings interesting perhaps too aggressive. Open loop settings should at the most just skim across the 14.7 cells only. So for you that would look something like this: 20 60 60 60 60 50 40 40 10 10 10 10 10 10 Was there any reason that you are attached to the lancer base rom rather than using tephra's patch? The reason i'm concerned is the lancer base rom cap's the load at around 115 or so. It also caps the injector pulse width so you can't use the full potential of the fueling system. This is dangerous on a turbo car imho you end up tricking the car's settings to try and force more fuel in instead of using a proper rom that will simply fuel it like it should. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8512189)
The numbers are nearly impossible to read when its in blue background.
I'm confused why your low octane fuel map is actually leaner than your high octane map which the car should run off of. That scenario should be reversed. I find your open loop settings interesting perhaps too aggressive. Open loop settings should at the most just skim across the 14.7 cells only. So for you that would look something like this: 20 60 60 60 60 50 40 40 10 10 10 10 10 10 Was there any reason that you are attached to the lancer base rom rather than using tephra's patch? The reason i'm concerned is the lancer base rom cap's the load at around 115 or so. It also caps the injector pulse width so you can't use the full potential of the fueling system. This is dangerous on a turbo car imho you end up tricking the car's settings to try and force more fuel in instead of using a proper rom that will simply fuel it like it should. do you want me to send the map through your email? and I will just pay you for wahtever tweaks you do? I dont want to change anything and then I screw it up. if you can do that I can look at the old map vs the one you send me and I can see what your talking about |
ds anyone know if the tactrix cable 1.3 R "not the u" will work on my 02 lancer es? I got a guy who is pending on me
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Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8512189)
The numbers are nearly impossible to read when its in blue background.
I'm confused why your low octane fuel map is actually leaner than your high octane map which the car should run off of. That scenario should be reversed. I find your open loop settings interesting perhaps too aggressive. Open loop settings should at the most just skim across the 14.7 cells only. So for you that would look something like this: 20 60 60 60 60 50 40 40 10 10 10 10 10 10 Was there any reason that you are attached to the lancer base rom rather than using tephra's patch? The reason i'm concerned is the lancer base rom cap's the load at around 115 or so. It also caps the injector pulse width so you can't use the full potential of the fueling system. This is dangerous on a turbo car imho you end up tricking the car's settings to try and force more fuel in instead of using a proper rom that will simply fuel it like it should. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8512347)
where do I get this tephra patch at? and how much does it cost? im waiting on speedcorps to do my rom but its been 2 weeks and I havent heard from them at all
Tephra's rom works if you are a manual lancer and I made the patch for automatics. Which one are you btw? |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8512460)
Tephra's rom is free same as mine is.
Tephra's rom works if you are a manual lancer and I made the patch for automatics. Which one are you btw? update great news im starting to lean out :crap: I have to keep the rpms up to 1100 to keep the afrs around the 13-14 range because im going up to as high as 16-18 which is not good!!! I need someone to tell me asap will the tactrix 1.3R "not U" work on our cars? I have one I need to buy right now!!! |
1.3R will not work nevermind
still need the tephra rom!!! 2002 lancer es Manual email me please stephen12211@yahoo.com if I need to pay I will going to job meeting now |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8512617)
1.3R will not work nevermind
still need the tephra rom!!! 2002 lancer es Manual email me please stephen12211@yahoo.com if I need to pay I will going to job meeting now If you have a working car best not to change it for the job interview now but I suppose you can always go back. Link to the tephra patch: http://www.globalshare.net/evo-mod/v...ears-Fixed.zip You need to follow senates instructions for the periphery settings. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7093422-post1.html Next you'll need to copy your maf scaling, injector scaling, latecy, etc over to the new rom. I could do it for you if you really wanted maybe 03 lancer would be kind enough to give you his. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8512656)
If you have a working car best not to change it for the job interview now but I suppose you can always go back.
Link to the tephra patch: http://www.globalshare.net/evo-mod/v...ears-Fixed.zip You need to follow senates instructions for the periphery settings. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7093422-post1.html Next you'll need to copy your maf scaling, injector scaling, latecy, etc over to the new rom. I could do it for you if you really wanted maybe 03 lancer would be kind enough to give you his. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8512979)
haha lol I just got done I think I can manage plus it would help me learn. If its word for word I think I can do my self and if I need help I will ask indeed thanks guys!!!
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Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8512993)
Instead of trying to copy the fuel and ignition maps over to the new v7 rom which are much larger try just copying the low octane map to the high octane one. I know a couple who have run it and it was close enough the car wouldn't knock too badly for a starter point.
what I will do tonight is get the map ready, and post pics and everyone can tell me what adjustments I need to make |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8513113)
should I copy the it from the stock map or the map I just put on the screen?
what I will do tonight is get the map ready, and post pics and everyone can tell me what adjustments I need to make |
VIOLA!!! I got it all fixed and changed all the periphery codes, I will be double checking tonight to make sure nothing got changed on the codes. and then I will just copy some stuff over from the stock rom to the new rom and I can start tuning from there. That was actually really easy!!! Now I just need yalls help tuning.
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He has my current injector settings already and as for the maf scaling I am not sure for him cause he is running the stock maf I would suggest changing the maf scaling to the stock 03 evo scaling this is what I am running and its perfect. I have the other maf settings changed to the evo too since I am running the evo 9 maf but obviously Steven will not have to change those since he is still running stock maf.
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Update...
im flashing the ECU tomorrow afternoon I was able to aquire a tactrix cable. SO I will tell you guys tomorrow how the car runs. Hopefully after having the turbo on for at least 2 weeks I can boost :-) |
well got my tactrix cable today!!! yay so anyways I flashed the Tephra mod, it started up like a charm, ran rich at first then leaned itself out to perfect idling afrs. Just can't press the pedal down because it runs rich so what do I need to do to start tuning. Any vids I can watch?
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8529615)
well got my tactrix cable today!!! yay so anyways I flashed the Tephra mod, it started up like a charm, ran rich at first then leaned itself out to perfect idling afrs. Just can't press the pedal down because it runs rich so what do I need to do to start tuning. Any vids I can watch?
Could be MAF scaling, injector scaling, latency for starters. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8529672)
Hard to say exactly whats going on with no logs to figure out what the computer is seeing.
Could be MAF scaling, injector scaling, latency for starters. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8529678)
let me log the car real quick whats your email so i can send you the logs. I kinda need help
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Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8529682)
Just zip it and post it here so everyone can look.
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1 Attachment(s)
delete
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delete
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1 Attachment(s)
here
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ok how do you do this I tried 3 times and its not working
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1 Attachment(s)
I hope this works
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1 Attachment(s)
test
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Not sure what you mean its not working I can see them all
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Anyways back to the problem at hand it looks like the car is still warming up so there are a whole host of tables that can cause too much fuel to be added in when that happens. Lets get the car warmed up fully first them log it and see if the problem is still around.
If its fine when its warm we can work with the warm up tables separately. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8529855)
Anyways back to the problem at hand it looks like the car is still warming up so there are a whole host of tables that can cause too much fuel to be added in when that happens. Lets get the car warmed up fully first them log it and see if the problem is still around.
If its fine when its warm we can work with the warm up tables separately. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8529615)
well got my tactrix cable today!!! yay so anyways I flashed the Tephra mod, it started up like a charm, ran rich at first then leaned itself out to perfect idling afrs. Just can't press the pedal down because it runs rich so what do I need to do to start tuning. Any vids I can watch?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-ecuflash.html Also this video from innovate is a nice general tuning video http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/lm101.php |
1 Attachment(s)
ok car was fully warmed up and then I started logging
im going to start watching those vids now |
The first couple of the 6 vid series are a little long and drawn out but he starts right from the beginning so bear with him its definately good info in all 6.
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8529954)
ok car was fully warmed up and then I started logging
im going to start watching those vids now |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8530687)
Idle looked pretty good how does it run though? Still really rich when driving around?
my injector latency is volts 4.6875 - 3.312 7.03125 - 1.680 9.375 - 1.032 11.7188 - 0.672 14.0625 - 0.432 16.4062 - .0264 18.6768 - 0.144 Injector scaling is 513 im getting knocks like up to 10 im not sure if there real or not but the afrs stay at a constant 14.9-15.0 they wont go higher or lower. and thats during idle. So how exactly do i start tuning do i do the timing first, the afrs, injector scaling? its so confusing, im understanding it a little bit and I see that logging is the key. So Im going to need alot of peoples help with my tune and trying to understand so im not so dependent. heres my log from earlier trying to pull out. its a bit long. I will be on tonight and I might do some tuning as well when i get back from the gf's house. But if you want to look at my rom let me know. |
nevermind it suppose to rain so I cant take the bike or the car :crap:
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There is too much data here for starters and probably not the right data.
don't need to log target idle. afrmap is completely wrong not sure why but 128 is dead wrong o2 feedback looks funky as hell it should be in a % not just -2 or whatever All knock based logged items are not knocksum which is what you want and need Baro has no need here unless you want to see if you overrun your filter EGRtemp is basically for the most part completely useless Octane number should read 100 or lower not 255 so something wrong there. MDP appears to be measuring in kPa but thats just pickyness by me Latency is dead wrong as a column showing a percentage instead of an integer like it should. The last column seems to be calculated load but never use that the load the caps at 160 will be fine for you or 1byte if your using tephra's mod. |
Moving my post about the log here since my post about the log items takes up too much space.
The log itself looked fairly normal except i can't see your AFR's. You claim they go really rich soon as you touch the throttle. I see a small blip on the injector pulse "async pulse adder" which is like the old carbs that used accelerator pumps. Besides this you start taking off at an awfully low rpm making it hard to see any real changes especially when we lack AFR monitoring in the log. Maybe do an experiment and see what happens if you just hold the gas down for a few arbitrary rpm ranges like 3k rpm and 4k rpm and watch your afr. This should give us enough range to figure out if your maf scaling is off or the injectors are off. Another possibility is the maf compensation table. The evo maf is hugely insensitive to low airflow through it so basically the compensation on a stock evo removes lots of fuel on the low airflow side then it jumps drastically forward. Anything above 50hz is pretty huge in change . |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8531039)
Moving my post about the log here since my post about the log items takes up too much space.
The log itself looked fairly normal except i can't see your AFR's. You claim they go really rich soon as you touch the throttle. I see a small blip on the injector pulse "async pulse adder" which is like the old carbs that used accelerator pumps. Besides this you start taking off at an awfully low rpm making it hard to see any real changes especially when we lack AFR monitoring in the log. Maybe do an experiment and see what happens if you just hold the gas down for a few arbitrary rpm ranges like 3k rpm and 4k rpm and watch your afr. This should give us enough range to figure out if your maf scaling is off or the injectors are off. Another possibility is the maf compensation table. The evo maf is hugely insensitive to low airflow through it so basically the compensation on a stock evo removes lots of fuel on the low airflow side then it jumps drastically forward. Anything above 50hz is pretty huge in change . |
oh im using mitsulogger just letting you know
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8531045)
oh im using mitsulogger just letting you know
You have the latest version? I do recommend evoscan simply because its less hassle :P. |
he just flashed v7 rom with out putting in anything from his stock rom so he might be running evo timing and fuel with their maf scaling and injector scaling cause he has wrx 440 so his scaling shouldnt be 513
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Originally Posted by link62
(Post 8531120)
he just flashed v7 rom with out putting in anything from his stock rom so he might be running evo timing and fuel with their maf scaling and injector scaling cause he has wrx 440 so his scaling shouldnt be 513
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Originally Posted by link62
(Post 8531120)
he just flashed v7 rom with out putting in anything from his stock rom so he might be running evo timing and fuel with their maf scaling and injector scaling cause he has wrx 440 so his scaling shouldnt be 513
the only thing I didnt change was the maf size, open and closed loops, high and low octanes, maf scaling, injector sizes and injector scaling. I have version 2.0 of mitsulogger |
I skipped some directions, I think i need to change the injector latency and the scaling.
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8531822)
I skipped some directions, I think i need to change the injector latency and the scaling.
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8531822)
I skipped some directions, I think i need to change the injector latency and the scaling.
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Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8531895)
Unless you have an evo maf you will need to change the maf scaling as well as the maf compensation table
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oh you two are so silly! :)
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:D hahaha damn it link you are too fast btw hows your car running?
I never did find the culprit in the code dropping the timing down to -1 I may find it eventually. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8531923)
:D hahaha damn it link you are too fast btw hows your car running?
I never did find the culprit in the code dropping the timing down to -1 I may find it eventually. |
Originally Posted by link62
(Post 8531953)
its been running good havent had much time lately to mess with the tune but still have some lean issues still, and start up is still a lil wacky, i been meaning to email you an update but havent had a chance to but ill send one in the morning when i get off work
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Originally Posted by link62
(Post 8531893)
and maf size and scaling cause i dont think your running an evo 399 maf
and is my mitsulogger the current version? |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8532025)
yeah I changed everything so far about to flash it in a minute, How would I scale the latency for the 440cc injectors? Or do I need to log it to see how it runs?
and is my mitsulogger the current version? but yeah you generally start with something like 90% of the injector cc value for scaling and start logging and testing. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8532036)
didn't you have settings from 03lance?
but yeah you generally start with something like 90% of the injector cc value for scaling and start logging and testing. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8532053)
well I did but his was running really rough for some reason.I was rich around 10.0 on start up and after 5 mins of warming up it went back to normal. so do i just multiply a percentage that equals 412, and do that same thing for the latency values?
The o2 sensor will tell us how to proceed. If its rich and pulling fuel we subtract latency by multiplying the whole right have side by a number to decrease them like 90% or 0.90 and the opposite is true if the o2 sensor says its adding fuel we simply multiply it by 110% or 1.10. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8532079)
Start with lances latency values and just see how it goes.
The o2 sensor will tell us how to proceed. If its rich and pulling fuel we subtract latency by multiplying the whole right have side by a number to decrease them like 90% or 0.90 and the opposite is true if the o2 sensor says its adding fuel we simply multiply it by 110% or 1.10. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8532199)
Is that rear or front my rear o2 is disconnected
the rear o2 can take over for the front but it does a terrible job of it. |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8532010)
Cool I did find a couple wacky places where the code directly messed with the raw timing value. It may be the culprit for you.
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Ok so I used 03lances letency plus his scaling, car ran the same as it did last time, so I scaled the injectors back to 412 and the car idles excellent!!! constant afrs from 14.5-15.0, and when its warm it idles around 14.8-15.0 so not much of a change there but at least its constant. Ok so I think the idle is set, but when I step on the gas it revs pretty good I saw a few afrs go to 11.4 which is good, but when I let go of the gas to idle position from 2k to where ever, it leans itself out to afrs around 18.0. here are a few logs from mitsulogger, but when I get paid I will most likely buy evoscan.
I will post the logs later today |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8534039)
Ok so I used 03lances letency plus his scaling, car ran the same as it did last time, so I scaled the injectors back to 412 and the car idles excellent!!! constant afrs from 14.5-15.0, and when its warm it idles around 14.8-15.0 so not much of a change there but at least its constant. Ok so I think the idle is set, but when I step on the gas it revs pretty good I saw a few afrs go to 11.4 which is good, but when I let go of the gas to idle position from 2k to where ever, it leans itself out to afrs around 18.0. here are a few logs from mitsulogger, but when I get paid I will most likely buy evoscan.
I will post the logs later today |
Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8534352)
If it goes lean with the foot off the throttle that actually may be perfectly normal. The car ecu is developed to shut off injectors with decelleration periods of no throttle input.
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8534720)
Well when it leans out the engine kind of dies and it died on me earlier I'm not sure what I need to change to keep it from dying
I suspect maf scaling and compensation for this kind of weirdness. |
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I will use 03 lances maf compensation and scaling and see if that let's me drive without leaning out . With his tune I was able to drive the car back and forth to work. I will see in about 20 mins and post up some logs from mitsulogger
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2 Attachment(s)
Sucess!!! I fixed the maf scaling and maf smoothing, even though i still dont know what those are lol, but I took the car up to the gas station and back and it runs great. Boosted once and heard the BOV go off, but then it hesitated a little bit because it was running rich. but I can drive the car normal but cant haul it yet. it seems like when I get close to boost levels it runs 10.0 or lower afrs and hesitates and when i let go of the gas it idles back to normal.
Had a few lean issues but im going to assume that the pump wasnt catching the fuel, I did have a little under a quarter so this friday I will fill it up and see if I run lean. But other than that car is good. Im about to check my logs I did back and forth to the gas station and see if I have any knocks. I will post them up here as well. What do I need to do to go into boost levels? I got up to maybe 1 psi at the most. here are my logs and let me know whats up |
Its exciting huh? Knowing your getting closer and closer, keep it up bro its hella confusing in the beginning but little by little you figure it out.
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Originally Posted by 03lances
(Post 8535547)
Its exciting huh? Knowing your getting closer and closer, keep it up bro its hella confusing in the beginning but little by little you figure it out.
High Octane fuel map low octane fuel map High Octane Ignition map 1 low octane ignition map 1 open loop load #1 open loop load #2 Open loop Throttle low load open loop throttle high load Maf Scaling Maf Smoothing Or if theres a thread with these deffinitions please let me know. if I know what and how these work that will make tuning for me alot easier |
First lets start off with what is high and low octane from the ECU's perspective.
The car itself has no sensor to tell it when the gas you put into the car is not adequate. So it relies on the knock sensor to tell it when there is an issue. As you may have guessed by now the low octane map is really a safety map designed for the worst possible gas in the car. This means low AFR's, low timing, and low boost if it is controlled. What the computer does is listen to the knock sensor and if events happen rapidly the octane rating which starts at 100 goes down. The computer interpolates the high octane (good fuel) map with the low octane map as the octane number drops. Think of it as a percentage between the two maps as the octane number drops the timing is shifted toward the low octane map. This is one of the many reasons you should never make your high and low octane maps the same. You want a safety system built into the ecu to take over in bad situations. If you don't have a timing difference the computer has to rely on the knock sensor to pull timing entirely, not as effective at keeping your motor alive. I've explained open loop settings before go back and read them in this thread. The maf scaling is simple as well its simply what did the maf sensor read and assigns its a load value. So if you have essentially too much fuel in an area you could either lower the load with the maf scaling map or use the compensation map to remove fuel. The compensation map is simply here's a maf reading and we are going to multiply the amount of fuel given by this number which is x/128. So its a percentage number where 128 is essentially 100% or 1.0. This allows you to add fuel or subtract fuel without messing with timing. Ideal for setups where you like the load curve but the fuel is out of whack. Your scenario of fuel being too rich when you let off the gas and heard the BOV sounds to me like you vented the BOV to atmosphere. It should be recirculated or it will not meter air correctly. If you want to use a BOV that vents to atmosphere you should consider speed density. |
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8535676)
man I just want to start boosting lol, I didnt know the BOV was that loud lol. im using a rom that I obtained a while back, im about to use the high octane and high octane ignition and see if that does anything which I hope, I think since my car is running pretty good im about to start leaning out the high octane map and see where that takes me then im going to have to check into the ignition timing. after watching those vids im kinda understanding but not fully. He doesnt really explain what is what in the ecu he. Can anyone give me definitions and how these maps work?
High Octane fuel mapThis is the fuel map the ecu uses at all times unless you hit a predetermined knock threschold low octane fuel mapThe ecu begins to interpolate between the high octane map and this one after you start hitting the knock threschold High Octane Ignition map 1This is the timing map the ecu uses at all times until you hit the predetermined knock threschold low octane ignition map 1Same routine as above open loop load #1 open loop load #2I am not 100% sure how these work so instead of possibly giving you the wrong info I will say nothing Open loop Throttle low load open loop throttle high loadThese two tables control the amount of throttle you have to give before going into open loop at a given rpm, as far as what the ecu considers high load and low load I am not certain Maf Scaling this controls how much air the ecu thinks its seeing at any given load, you have to log airflow in hz (at least in evoscan) to see where those numbers are relative to load. If you raise the number in any cell in the right column, then at that load range you have just told the ecu its getting more air which means it will add more fuel Maf Smoothing I have not messed with this one personally I have left it stock Or if theres a thread with these deffinitions please let me know. if I know what and how these work that will make tuning for me alot easier |
Here's a guide for you guys. Its got more evo related info than base lancer but the acronyms and tuning concepts are the same for these or any car.
http://evoecu.logic.net/mirror/merli...UIDE-V1.7a.pdf |
now that roadspike mentioned it i also think your bov is not connected to your intake, which is the reason your car is dying, i had this happen long ago and it cause erratic afrs and sometimes made the car die when i stopped. so i would check your bov and reconnect it to the intake and it should fix your problem
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Originally Posted by link62
(Post 8536353)
now that roadspike mentioned it i also think your bov is not connected to your intake, which is the reason your car is dying, i had this happen long ago and it cause erratic afrs and sometimes made the car die when i stopped. so i would check your bov and reconnect it to the intake and it should fix your problem
I think I need a new battery... my car keeps dying, because if it was my alternator wouldnt the car die anyways. |
where can I get some t-clamps to? If its a boost leak then something aint right,
when I get to boost levels my car runs rich, would that be a tune issue, or a leak issue? Or possibly both? I made sure that everything was tighten down. |
Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8536816)
where can I get some t-clamps to? If its a boost leak then something aint right,
when I get to boost levels my car runs rich, would that be a tune issue, or a leak issue? Or possibly both? I made sure that everything was tighten down. T bolt clamps can be bought at napa. |
I made a boost leak tester using this guide it works mint for me and I found a good size leak using it
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...er-5-02-a.html Or there is this one which cost more but is easier to use. I plan on making one of these soon just to have https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-detector.html |
Hey what are excellent afrs for idling and accelerating? I read it was 15.4 cruise and idle.and for wot its 11.5
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8537637)
Hey what are excellent afrs for idling and accelerating? I read it was 15.4 cruise and idle.and for wot its 11.5
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I think I found my problem, where can I buy that metal connector that goes in between the hotside and the compressor side? its like one of metal clamps that screws but it doesnt actually screw together? Mines borken
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Originally Posted by steven121
(Post 8538211)
I think I found my problem, where can I buy that metal connector that goes in between the hotside and the compressor side? its like one of metal clamps that screws but it doesnt actually screw together? Mines borken
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Originally Posted by RoadSpike
(Post 8538218)
You mean the ring clamp is busted on the hotside?
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