View Poll Results: Do you Agree????
I Agree
210
55.70%
I Don't Agree
167
44.30%
Voters: 377. You may not vote on this poll
WarrTalon............
Originally Posted by ez76
I have to believe that the people who think Warrtalon is helpful are mostly newbies. I don't mean that derogatorily - I think you must be relatively new to Evo tuning or drag racing, otherwise I don't see how you could consider his regurgitated, basic advice so useful.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he misleads or that his information is incorrect, and he is available and willing to help in an "I like to hear my own voice so I'll share this basic knowledge with you" sort of way. But really, at the end of the day, he contributes absolutely nothing new information-wise, and is rude to boot, which in my opinion makes his contribution a net loss for the community.
To newbies, he's kind of like a search button that gives you matching threads and the feeling that you're an idiot. It is cute that EvoM has its own Morton Downey, Jr. But he is basically as much of a "resource" here as, I don't know, a 6th grade hall monitor. If he were gone, searching and other people would take his place, and the community would be better off.
Regarding the pushing goods when he's not a paying vendor - hmm ... it's a fine line - not. He advertises his sponsors' products (does work for them) and in return gets free parts (is paid by them). Semantics aside, how is that different from being the employee/agent of (and representing) a vendor? Really I don't care except in as much as he should be held to the same behavior standards as the vendors he represents. His **** wouldn't fly if he were Warrtalon@Buschur.
For his loyal fans, let's talk about the rudeness. Ah yes, the rudeness. The problem with rudeness ... is ultimately not about the being insulted or having our "feewings hurt" or not having thick enough skin. What you people don't realize is that for every person that posts something here on EvoM, there are 100 who don't have the time or inclination to do so, but they are nonetheless reading threads and they do see that Warrtalon makes this a ****tier community to visit and learn from. Why? Because, outside of the military, most people with any self-respect don't appreciate or permit being talked down to. Some people get a kick out of the rudeness because this is th3 int3rw3b. For some of us who have been here longer, we are pretty pissed off that people like Warrtalon are changing the nature of these forums for the worse.
Warrtalon's posts do not promote education, discussion or technical debate, they promote Warrtalon at the expense of new members, precisely the group that needs to be welcomed and helped.
Or do they? Ultimately it is a philosophical question for the staff - EvoM has always felt like an open door community. The Warrtalon cult would have it be more of a clubhouse. Where do you see it going?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he misleads or that his information is incorrect, and he is available and willing to help in an "I like to hear my own voice so I'll share this basic knowledge with you" sort of way. But really, at the end of the day, he contributes absolutely nothing new information-wise, and is rude to boot, which in my opinion makes his contribution a net loss for the community.
To newbies, he's kind of like a search button that gives you matching threads and the feeling that you're an idiot. It is cute that EvoM has its own Morton Downey, Jr. But he is basically as much of a "resource" here as, I don't know, a 6th grade hall monitor. If he were gone, searching and other people would take his place, and the community would be better off.
Regarding the pushing goods when he's not a paying vendor - hmm ... it's a fine line - not. He advertises his sponsors' products (does work for them) and in return gets free parts (is paid by them). Semantics aside, how is that different from being the employee/agent of (and representing) a vendor? Really I don't care except in as much as he should be held to the same behavior standards as the vendors he represents. His **** wouldn't fly if he were Warrtalon@Buschur.
For his loyal fans, let's talk about the rudeness. Ah yes, the rudeness. The problem with rudeness ... is ultimately not about the being insulted or having our "feewings hurt" or not having thick enough skin. What you people don't realize is that for every person that posts something here on EvoM, there are 100 who don't have the time or inclination to do so, but they are nonetheless reading threads and they do see that Warrtalon makes this a ****tier community to visit and learn from. Why? Because, outside of the military, most people with any self-respect don't appreciate or permit being talked down to. Some people get a kick out of the rudeness because this is th3 int3rw3b. For some of us who have been here longer, we are pretty pissed off that people like Warrtalon are changing the nature of these forums for the worse.
Warrtalon's posts do not promote education, discussion or technical debate, they promote Warrtalon at the expense of new members, precisely the group that needs to be welcomed and helped.
Or do they? Ultimately it is a philosophical question for the staff - EvoM has always felt like an open door community. The Warrtalon cult would have it be more of a clubhouse. Where do you see it going?
I can only speak from my own experience when I was reading Warrtalon's postings on here back a year ago I had a certain vision in my mind of how the guy would be
When I met him and discovered that he was an ex-marine and a really tough stand up kind of guy and a very down to earth and cool person it changed some of my impressions
As I got to know Clay, I have seen that he is a person very dedicated to helping others in the Evo community and also a guy who takes a lot of time to help out other guys. Also, he has been honest 100% and trustworthy.
At this point I can say a few points
#1 - It is s a shame that this forum allows this thread to continue at all which is basically 15 pages of insults and name calling. I have a hard time to really appreciate how guys like myself and David Buschur can get banned responsding to threads and comments like the ones in here. It seems you can get away with insulting someone on here as long as you dont call them a foul name. There are many comments on this thread which I feel should be deleted and th poster banned. I guess I am just a participant here so I have to go with the flow, however, on my new forums I dont tolerate any of this type of drama.
#2 - The fact that this kind of drama filled thread which has nothing to do with evos quickly fills pages and pages of hateful comments shows me where the majority of your heads are at. Its like a train wreck mentality over here. We have a genious like Jason Seibles on the AEM forum making great observations on how to tune evos and NO ONE is interested meanwhile a SOAP OPERA like drama thread like this one garners hundereds of views.
#3 - There are a lot of jealous people out there. Dont be a HATER - just becuase Clay got himself and his car sponsored by many major shops and companies does not mean you have to hate on him.
Please. if you dont like the guy - dont read waht he writes.
The truth is I have had dozens of customers who have told me that Clay wasvery helpful to them and spent a lot of time working with them to get their car set up perfect.
Thanks
When I met him and discovered that he was an ex-marine and a really tough stand up kind of guy and a very down to earth and cool person it changed some of my impressions
As I got to know Clay, I have seen that he is a person very dedicated to helping others in the Evo community and also a guy who takes a lot of time to help out other guys. Also, he has been honest 100% and trustworthy.
At this point I can say a few points
#1 - It is s a shame that this forum allows this thread to continue at all which is basically 15 pages of insults and name calling. I have a hard time to really appreciate how guys like myself and David Buschur can get banned responsding to threads and comments like the ones in here. It seems you can get away with insulting someone on here as long as you dont call them a foul name. There are many comments on this thread which I feel should be deleted and th poster banned. I guess I am just a participant here so I have to go with the flow, however, on my new forums I dont tolerate any of this type of drama.
#2 - The fact that this kind of drama filled thread which has nothing to do with evos quickly fills pages and pages of hateful comments shows me where the majority of your heads are at. Its like a train wreck mentality over here. We have a genious like Jason Seibles on the AEM forum making great observations on how to tune evos and NO ONE is interested meanwhile a SOAP OPERA like drama thread like this one garners hundereds of views.
#3 - There are a lot of jealous people out there. Dont be a HATER - just becuase Clay got himself and his car sponsored by many major shops and companies does not mean you have to hate on him.
Please. if you dont like the guy - dont read waht he writes.
The truth is I have had dozens of customers who have told me that Clay wasvery helpful to them and spent a lot of time working with them to get their car set up perfect.
Thanks
Last edited by DynoFlash; Mar 29, 2006 at 08:59 AM.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Maybe you will start to practice what you preach ?
Search his posts, Al; he does.
IMO, EZ76 is one of the best writers/organizers of his thoughts on this forum.
Originally Posted by Noize
And the doors are reopened...
Search his posts, Al; he does.
IMO, EZ76 is one of the best writers/organizers of his thoughts on this forum.
Search his posts, Al; he does.
IMO, EZ76 is one of the best writers/organizers of his thoughts on this forum.
Have fun you all
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
What a joke. YOu exaggerated on everything. I by no means tell everyone their mods are crap, I don't just blatantly talk **** as you would say, and I constantly help people with racing. People are constantly PM'ing me and asking for advice. Hell, sometimes they ask for my DIRECT INPUT in the Drag Racing forum.
As for my packages, what the hell are you talking about? These are Buschur packages that I made. How am I disrespecting vendors when it's a MAJOR PLATINUM VENDOR WHO SELLS THEM. I don't sell them. I don't take any money. I don't ship anything. I do nothing except the same thing I've always done - help people go fast for less. Have you even looked at the link to see what it says? It says to call Buschur directly and order it - it's all Buschur, Dynoflash, and Forge sold through Buschur. They make the money. I love how you exaggerated about me PUSHING it in everyone's face. All I do is provide suggestions. I also give props to other tuners, other mods, and other paths if they make sense. I have said many times to people that they don't have to get my specific package, but I implore them to get a combination of mods that is similar if they want their car to be awesome. Before there even was a package, I helped people the same way all the time. Now, it's just easier to point to a link than to list out all the mods every single time. Nothing has changed except that now it's easier for me and easier for them if they want to take that route. If they don't want to take that route, fine, it doesn't matter to me. It's not like my income is based off of it...
Try to get your facts straight before coming in here and slandering someone. You failed to get your facts straight when you misread a dyno chart and accused Dynoflash of tuning someone to a 13.0:1 AFR, and you've failed to get your facts straight here when accusing ME. I see a pattern...
As for my packages, what the hell are you talking about? These are Buschur packages that I made. How am I disrespecting vendors when it's a MAJOR PLATINUM VENDOR WHO SELLS THEM. I don't sell them. I don't take any money. I don't ship anything. I do nothing except the same thing I've always done - help people go fast for less. Have you even looked at the link to see what it says? It says to call Buschur directly and order it - it's all Buschur, Dynoflash, and Forge sold through Buschur. They make the money. I love how you exaggerated about me PUSHING it in everyone's face. All I do is provide suggestions. I also give props to other tuners, other mods, and other paths if they make sense. I have said many times to people that they don't have to get my specific package, but I implore them to get a combination of mods that is similar if they want their car to be awesome. Before there even was a package, I helped people the same way all the time. Now, it's just easier to point to a link than to list out all the mods every single time. Nothing has changed except that now it's easier for me and easier for them if they want to take that route. If they don't want to take that route, fine, it doesn't matter to me. It's not like my income is based off of it...
Try to get your facts straight before coming in here and slandering someone. You failed to get your facts straight when you misread a dyno chart and accused Dynoflash of tuning someone to a 13.0:1 AFR, and you've failed to get your facts straight here when accusing ME. I see a pattern...
WTF is this stupid poll about anyway? Yes i somewhat agree with the BS Evo_Kid was trying to say but actually blew way out of proportion, but i more so disagree with the point he is trying to make as a whole because he seems to accidently leave out all the ways warr is beneficial to this forum. Seriously I don't know anyone on this forum more beneficial then him except the tuners and vendors themselves.. If he leaves this forum, i would seriously be pissed off because he plays such a crutial role here. Positive and negative. And even when he says something negative it always makes sense and is backed up 100%.. I would even say that i am way more negative on this forum with less backing to my word, and nobody calls me out on it because i am not such a huge part of this community like warrtalon.
Basically Evo_Kid, this is a joke, and you really are a nothing in this forum. It would be way more beneficial to toss each and every person off this forum like you, who hates without thinking logically first; than it would be to throw one warrtalon off the forum. Even if there was almost 200 of you..
Last edited by KOEvo; Mar 29, 2006 at 09:08 AM.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I can only speak from my own experience when I was reading Warrtalon's postings on here back a year ago I had a certain vision in my mind of how the guy would be
When I met him and discovered that he was an ex-marine and a really tough stand up kind of guy and a very down to earth and cool person it changed some of my impressions
As I got to know Clay, I have seen that he is a person very dedicated to helping others in the Evo community and also a guy who takes a lot of time to help out other guys. Also, he has been honest 100% and trustworthy.
At this point I can say a few points
#1 - It is s a shame that this forum allows this thread to continue at all which is basically 15 pages of insults and name calling.
#2 - The fact that this kind of drama filled thread which has nothing to do with evos quickly fills pages and pages of hateful comments shows me where the majority of your heads are at. Its like a train wreck mentality over here. We have a genious like Jason Seibles on the AEM forum making great observations on how to tune evos and NO ONE is interested meanwhile a SOAP OPERA like drama thread like this one garners hundereds of views.
#3 - There are a lot of jealous people out there. Dont be a HATER - just becuase Clay got himself and his car sponsored by many major shops and companies does not mean you have to hate on him.
Please. if you dont like the guy - dont read waht he writes.
The truth is I have had dozens of customers who have told me that Clay wasvery helpful to them and spent a lot of time working with them to get their car set up perfect.
Thanks
When I met him and discovered that he was an ex-marine and a really tough stand up kind of guy and a very down to earth and cool person it changed some of my impressions
As I got to know Clay, I have seen that he is a person very dedicated to helping others in the Evo community and also a guy who takes a lot of time to help out other guys. Also, he has been honest 100% and trustworthy.
At this point I can say a few points
#1 - It is s a shame that this forum allows this thread to continue at all which is basically 15 pages of insults and name calling.
#2 - The fact that this kind of drama filled thread which has nothing to do with evos quickly fills pages and pages of hateful comments shows me where the majority of your heads are at. Its like a train wreck mentality over here. We have a genious like Jason Seibles on the AEM forum making great observations on how to tune evos and NO ONE is interested meanwhile a SOAP OPERA like drama thread like this one garners hundereds of views.
#3 - There are a lot of jealous people out there. Dont be a HATER - just becuase Clay got himself and his car sponsored by many major shops and companies does not mean you have to hate on him.
Please. if you dont like the guy - dont read waht he writes.
The truth is I have had dozens of customers who have told me that Clay wasvery helpful to them and spent a lot of time working with them to get their car set up perfect.
Thanks
People arent hating on him becuase he is sponsored, people are hating on him because he treats people like crap.
There are plenty of people that are sponsored on here that dont treat people like this and are respected by the others.
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 3
From: Birmingham, AL
I think jealousy is the big factor here. Threads like this are self-defeating IMO, "vote if you don't like him or not", so 2nd grade. If you want to deal with him, then beat him. Do something positive for the community, get a hot time, write some tech articles, or come up with an impressive, inexpensive and effective mod sequence and share. Then do it in a nice or polite sort of way to show him that it can be done without all the comments some poeple find offensive - if you so choose, or be just like him but better - either way. Or don't do anything and just ignore him.
Threads like this just feed into the "problem", although I do not think there is one. The mods take care of the rules. I think he gets too much "press" for what he has done. The "Warrtalon Show" as it is called wouldn't be as big if people weren't so thin skinned or easily provoked. Yes, if you wish to retaliate, then that is fine, do so within the rules, but ignoring him is fine too. But don't go out of your way to discredit him, by making things up, lieing about your car or whatever - that's dumb (not singling anyone out).
He has every right to be proud of what he has done, who he has helped, etc. But it doesn't mean I or anyone else has to follow in his footsteps exactly, or we have "wasted money" or not putting our Evos to good use. Do it the way you want to, if that makes you happy. All this is about is seeking the approval of others to justify ones actions, and it is pointless.
BTW, I did not vote. There needs to be an "indifferent/who cares/I am a grown man" option.
Threads like this just feed into the "problem", although I do not think there is one. The mods take care of the rules. I think he gets too much "press" for what he has done. The "Warrtalon Show" as it is called wouldn't be as big if people weren't so thin skinned or easily provoked. Yes, if you wish to retaliate, then that is fine, do so within the rules, but ignoring him is fine too. But don't go out of your way to discredit him, by making things up, lieing about your car or whatever - that's dumb (not singling anyone out).
He has every right to be proud of what he has done, who he has helped, etc. But it doesn't mean I or anyone else has to follow in his footsteps exactly, or we have "wasted money" or not putting our Evos to good use. Do it the way you want to, if that makes you happy. All this is about is seeking the approval of others to justify ones actions, and it is pointless.
BTW, I did not vote. There needs to be an "indifferent/who cares/I am a grown man" option.
Last edited by GPTourer; Mar 29, 2006 at 09:27 AM.
