CBRD BBK TURBO Available Now!!
Nov 28, 2008, 09:22 AM
#64
First off, I'm very excited to see that the EVO community is still alive and well because for a while there I thought a monopoly was soon approaching. It is nice to see that there is another dog in the fight and the various BBK turbo trims look impressive early-on. I appreciate all of the R&D time spent to give the community more decisions to ponder over in the days ahead. I have a few questions, comments, and concerns that I need some light shed on.
#1 - The stock IX turbo/E85 combination (set at 29PSI) is pretty nice IMO. What would be the benefits of me upgrading to the BBK Lite (for $800) or the BBK Full (for $1200) when they are both recommended to run at a peak of 29PSI? I guess I'm looking to be pursuaded in this regard.
#2 - Assuming that I am pursuaded by Question 1, would 1200cc injectors work for the BBK Full as I do not want to have to run a double pumper at all? If this is the case, then the BBK Full is my obvious choice.
#3 - Is there going to be as close as possible a comparison of the FP Green vs. BBK Lite?
I will continue to look forward in anticipation in the days ahead and I agree there must be a COMBINED thread as there are (I believe) three out there.
Thanks!
#1 - The stock IX turbo/E85 combination (set at 29PSI) is pretty nice IMO. What would be the benefits of me upgrading to the BBK Lite (for $800) or the BBK Full (for $1200) when they are both recommended to run at a peak of 29PSI? I guess I'm looking to be pursuaded in this regard.
#2 - Assuming that I am pursuaded by Question 1, would 1200cc injectors work for the BBK Full as I do not want to have to run a double pumper at all? If this is the case, then the BBK Full is my obvious choice.
#3 - Is there going to be as close as possible a comparison of the FP Green vs. BBK Lite?
I will continue to look forward in anticipation in the days ahead and I agree there must be a COMBINED thread as there are (I believe) three out there.
Thanks!
Nov 28, 2008, 10:31 AM
#65
First off, I'm very excited to see that the EVO community is still alive and well because for a while there I thought a monopoly was soon approaching. It is nice to see that there is another dog in the fight and the various BBK turbo trims look impressive early-on. I appreciate all of the R&D time spent to give the community more decisions to ponder over in the days ahead. I have a few questions, comments, and concerns that I need some light shed on.
#1 - The stock IX turbo/E85 combination (set at 29PSI) is pretty nice IMO. What would be the benefits of me upgrading to the BBK Lite (for $800) or the BBK Full (for $1200) when they are both recommended to run at a peak of 29PSI? I guess I'm looking to be pursuaded in this regard.
#2 - Assuming that I am pursuaded by Question 1, would 1200cc injectors work for the BBK Full as I do not want to have to run a double pumper at all? If this is the case, then the BBK Full is my obvious choice.
#3 - Is there going to be as close as possible a comparison of the FP Green vs. BBK Lite?
I will continue to look forward in anticipation in the days ahead and I agree there must be a COMBINED thread as there are (I believe) three out there.
Thanks!
#1 - The stock IX turbo/E85 combination (set at 29PSI) is pretty nice IMO. What would be the benefits of me upgrading to the BBK Lite (for $800) or the BBK Full (for $1200) when they are both recommended to run at a peak of 29PSI? I guess I'm looking to be pursuaded in this regard.
#2 - Assuming that I am pursuaded by Question 1, would 1200cc injectors work for the BBK Full as I do not want to have to run a double pumper at all? If this is the case, then the BBK Full is my obvious choice.
#3 - Is there going to be as close as possible a comparison of the FP Green vs. BBK Lite?
I will continue to look forward in anticipation in the days ahead and I agree there must be a COMBINED thread as there are (I believe) three out there.
Thanks!
the turbo is faster in transient response than a stock ix turbo... meaning it will respond quicker to part throttle inputs, stabs of the throttle and shift response...
it is 10lbs min more than a stock ix compressor so it has the added flow... but we have never done much testing over 30.... then again we have never had any ix turbos run over 31 either... and the BBK on pump has beaten alky kitted cars at 30psi
I do have some green dyno charts, but since we did a few greens about 1.5 years ago our dyno calibration for rpm pick points has changed, and its hard to directly overlay the spool up characteristics...
although, I can (and did just this morning) overlay a stock ix turbo to a BBK and show no loss in initial spool at WOT and in some/most cases quicker response out of the bbk.
The LITE is compressor only, so it responds rediculously quick at part throttle.. the Full is still superior to stock... the turbine has one less blade and is larger allowing for more flow.... and some drive on the compressor side.....
The full has shown a little more potential for torque gains... and slightly better boost thresholds at high rpm
cb
Nov 29, 2008, 07:29 AM
#66
to answer your questions, the turbo is faster in transient response than a stock ix turbo... meaning it will respond quicker to part throttle inputs, stabs of the throttle and shift response... it is 10lbs min more than a stock ix compressor so it has the added flow... but we have never done much testing over 30.... then again we have never had any ix turbos run over 31 either... and the BBK on pump has beaten alky kitted cars at 30psi. I do have some green dyno charts, but since we did a few greens about 1.5 years ago our dyno calibration for rpm pick points has changed, and its hard to directly overlay the spool up characteristics... although, I can (and did just this morning) overlay a stock ix turbo to a BBK and show no loss in initial spool at WOT and in some/most cases quicker response out of the bbk. The LITE is compressor only, so it responds rediculously quick at part throttle.. the Full is still superior to stock... the turbine has one less blade and is larger allowing for more flow.... and some drive on the compressor side..... The full has shown a little more potential for torque gains... and slightly better boost thresholds at high rpm
cb
cb
Nov 30, 2008, 06:11 AM
#67
It seems like this thread is more responsive than the other few CBRD threads out there. I posted the below comments and I'm looking for some feedback. I know the feedback may be a bit biased but that's alright with me.
I'm very pleased to read about the turbo trims offered. Just a bit of history, I am/was one of the FP Red (oh my God) types until I realized the additional requirements needed to run the FP Red and bring it to life. I posted similiar concerns on the previous thread and I'll do the same here. I have an E85 station less than five miles from my house so ethanol will be in the equation for any upgraded turbo option. For starters, I do not want to have to purcahse a double pumper ($500) to suffice running the FP Red. Keeping E85 in mind, what is the minimum fuel injector size I'll need to run the BBK Full considering that it is recommended to be very efficient up to the 29PSI range? In the short term, I'm running the stock IX turbo/E85 combination. The reason why this is important to me is that the FP Red sells for $1800 and I can't afford for my car to sit in the garage waiting on a conversion which means that I'll have to do the complete and new BBK Full upgrade for $1650. I understand that the FP Red shines with high boost and/or (E85, meth, alky). From what I can see (read), the BBK Full shines on pump up to 29PSI. I hope that I'm shedding some light on my dilemma and I guess that I'm looking for feedback as to why I shouldn't simply spend the additional $200 or so and buy the FP Red? On tap, I have the BR race FMIC and Kelford 272 in stored and I don't plan on purchasing the BR head like I've seen several cars on the thread are sporting. I hope I have explained things are clear as possible and I look forward to the feedback. Thanks.
I'm very pleased to read about the turbo trims offered. Just a bit of history, I am/was one of the FP Red (oh my God) types until I realized the additional requirements needed to run the FP Red and bring it to life. I posted similiar concerns on the previous thread and I'll do the same here. I have an E85 station less than five miles from my house so ethanol will be in the equation for any upgraded turbo option. For starters, I do not want to have to purcahse a double pumper ($500) to suffice running the FP Red. Keeping E85 in mind, what is the minimum fuel injector size I'll need to run the BBK Full considering that it is recommended to be very efficient up to the 29PSI range? In the short term, I'm running the stock IX turbo/E85 combination. The reason why this is important to me is that the FP Red sells for $1800 and I can't afford for my car to sit in the garage waiting on a conversion which means that I'll have to do the complete and new BBK Full upgrade for $1650. I understand that the FP Red shines with high boost and/or (E85, meth, alky). From what I can see (read), the BBK Full shines on pump up to 29PSI. I hope that I'm shedding some light on my dilemma and I guess that I'm looking for feedback as to why I shouldn't simply spend the additional $200 or so and buy the FP Red? On tap, I have the BR race FMIC and Kelford 272 in stored and I don't plan on purchasing the BR head like I've seen several cars on the thread are sporting. I hope I have explained things are clear as possible and I look forward to the feedback. Thanks.
Nov 30, 2008, 08:42 AM
#68
It seems like this thread is more responsive than the other few CBRD threads out there. I posted the below comments and I'm looking for some feedback. I know the feedback may be a bit biased but that's alright with me.
I'm very pleased to read about the turbo trims offered. Just a bit of history, I am/was one of the FP Red (oh my God) types until I realized the additional requirements needed to run the FP Red and bring it to life. I posted similiar concerns on the previous thread and I'll do the same here. I have an E85 station less than five miles from my house so ethanol will be in the equation for any upgraded turbo option. For starters, I do not want to have to purcahse a double pumper ($500) to suffice running the FP Red. Keeping E85 in mind, what is the minimum fuel injector size I'll need to run the BBK Full considering that it is recommended to be very efficient up to the 29PSI range? In the short term, I'm running the stock IX turbo/E85 combination. The reason why this is important to me is that the FP Red sells for $1800 and I can't afford for my car to sit in the garage waiting on a conversion which means that I'll have to do the complete and new BBK Full upgrade for $1650. I understand that the FP Red shines with high boost and/or (E85, meth, alky). From what I can see (read), the BBK Full shines on pump up to 29PSI. I hope that I'm shedding some light on my dilemma and I guess that I'm looking for feedback as to why I shouldn't simply spend the additional $200 or so and buy the FP Red? On tap, I have the BR race FMIC and Kelford 272 in stored and I don't plan on purchasing the BR head like I've seen several cars on the thread are sporting. I hope I have explained things are clear as possible and I look forward to the feedback. Thanks.
I'm very pleased to read about the turbo trims offered. Just a bit of history, I am/was one of the FP Red (oh my God) types until I realized the additional requirements needed to run the FP Red and bring it to life. I posted similiar concerns on the previous thread and I'll do the same here. I have an E85 station less than five miles from my house so ethanol will be in the equation for any upgraded turbo option. For starters, I do not want to have to purcahse a double pumper ($500) to suffice running the FP Red. Keeping E85 in mind, what is the minimum fuel injector size I'll need to run the BBK Full considering that it is recommended to be very efficient up to the 29PSI range? In the short term, I'm running the stock IX turbo/E85 combination. The reason why this is important to me is that the FP Red sells for $1800 and I can't afford for my car to sit in the garage waiting on a conversion which means that I'll have to do the complete and new BBK Full upgrade for $1650. I understand that the FP Red shines with high boost and/or (E85, meth, alky). From what I can see (read), the BBK Full shines on pump up to 29PSI. I hope that I'm shedding some light on my dilemma and I guess that I'm looking for feedback as to why I shouldn't simply spend the additional $200 or so and buy the FP Red? On tap, I have the BR race FMIC and Kelford 272 in stored and I don't plan on purchasing the BR head like I've seen several cars on the thread are sporting. I hope I have explained things are clear as possible and I look forward to the feedback. Thanks.
As far as the e85 and BBK, I think its the best of both worlds, if you aren't going to run meth or high boost > 30 psi then the BBK is perfect, you get unbeatable spoolup and great torque down low from any other turbo in this flow range! This is my exact plan with my stoker motor, BBK full with e85.....keep the boost around 24-26psi and throw as much timing as she can take, that way you aren't spinning the crap out of the turbo and pushing your motor too far....sometimes less boost and more timing is the ticket, sometimes not, depends on the car.
The only other thing you should think about other than what you have posted is a clutch now...unless you already have one.
Hope that helps you....Happy Thanksgiving!
~Zach
Nov 30, 2008, 02:18 PM
#71
From my experience if you don't have a built motor or any headwork I would say stay with 1050cc injectors. There are plenty of people making 500 whp on 1050's on e85 with head room left. A single pump will be fine for 1050's but anything over that you will need the double pumper (hence why they said you would need it for the Red). A single high flow modified walbro will flow just enough to saturate the 1050's at 90% IDC. As far as the e85 and BBK, I think its the best of both worlds, if you aren't going to run meth or high boost > 30 psi then the BBK is perfect, you get unbeatable spoolup and great torque down low from any other turbo in this flow range! This is my exact plan with my stoker motor, BBK full with e85.....keep the boost around 24-26psi and throw as much timing as she can take, that way you aren't spinning the crap out of the turbo and pushing your motor too far....sometimes less boost and more timing is the ticket, sometimes not, depends on the car. The only other thing you should think about other than what you have posted is a clutch now...unless you already have one.
Nov 30, 2008, 02:31 PM
#72
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I know it might be stepping on toes but there are a good number of people on the fence between this turbo and the red. (I know, I know....different turbos)
If this turbo proves to make more power than the Green then I know I will jump on it for an E85 tune. If not, Fp Red on pump gas for now and E85 later.
Any thoughts on power output compared to the Green would be usefull.
If this turbo proves to make more power than the Green then I know I will jump on it for an E85 tune. If not, Fp Red on pump gas for now and E85 later.
Any thoughts on power output compared to the Green would be usefull.
Nov 30, 2008, 02:50 PM
#73
I know it might be stepping on toes but there are a good number of people on the fence between this turbo and the red. (I know, I know....different turbos). If this turbo proves to make more power than the Green then I know I will jump on it for an E85 tune. If not, Fp Red on pump gas for now and E85 later. Any thoughts on power output compared to the Green would be usefull.
Nov 30, 2008, 04:42 PM
#74
I know it might be stepping on toes but there are a good number of people on the fence between this turbo and the red. (I know, I know....different turbos)
If this turbo proves to make more power than the Green then I know I will jump on it for an E85 tune. If not, Fp Red on pump gas for now and E85 later.
Any thoughts on power output compared to the Green would be usefull.
If this turbo proves to make more power than the Green then I know I will jump on it for an E85 tune. If not, Fp Red on pump gas for now and E85 later.
Any thoughts on power output compared to the Green would be usefull.
BBK lite < Green < BBK full < Red
BBK lite, very fast spooling turbo (faster than a stock 9 in some cases) holds boost up top, less than 30psi without any trouble
FP Green, slightly slower spool than stock, holds good boost up top
BBK full, same spool as stock 8 turbo w/ 10.5 hotside, holds boost better up top than the BBK lite > 35 psi and picks up about 15 ft/lbs of torque on 2.0 (we will see how much on a 2.3 once my car gets back on the dyno)
FP Red, slightly slower spool than the BBK full, holds boost really well up top and flows more than the BBK full, about 10 lbs/min more....
That's my impression I got from all this conversation in the thread and from working with both vendors in the past and present. Also from multiple dyno graphs and many different setups. Again this is just my impression and not gospel by any means. Please do not take this as such and make you own opinion from what I have posted.
~Zach
Last edited by phenem; Nov 30, 2008 at 05:01 PM.
