TTP-Engineering new cam timing, dyno chart included
May 8, 2006, 08:03 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
It made 313whp on a 50trim. 3-1-3 with 272/272s! Granted that is more than you, it is far from a stellar accomplishment on a turbo of that size.
A few facts I have noticed:
1.You have never driven a RNR 50trim or any other 50trim for that matter, yet appear to have all the facts on what the typical spoolup characteristics are of the aforementioned turbo.
2. You believe that the camshaft degree setting is less than appealing in any other application than drag racing based on a dynograph you have NOT compared to another comparably modded Evo with the same RNR 50trim turbo.
3. You cannot break into the 11's with sponsored cams, alky injection, two free clutches from Exedy, custom reflashes from a vendor here amongst various other perks such as exhaust products yet are the end all in drag racing, POWER STAGES and tuning advice? Please
.
What I can tell you is our signature represents what we have accomplished and based on the facts, E.T.'s and trapspeeds, you should be the one taking our advice not the other way around. When you finally hit 11's, come back and post your expert thoughts on how to go fast and create power. By that time we will be running 10's @ 128+ on the stock turbo using parts we purchased, not handouts from other vendors.
A few facts I have noticed:
1.You have never driven a RNR 50trim or any other 50trim for that matter, yet appear to have all the facts on what the typical spoolup characteristics are of the aforementioned turbo.
2. You believe that the camshaft degree setting is less than appealing in any other application than drag racing based on a dynograph you have NOT compared to another comparably modded Evo with the same RNR 50trim turbo.
3. You cannot break into the 11's with sponsored cams, alky injection, two free clutches from Exedy, custom reflashes from a vendor here amongst various other perks such as exhaust products yet are the end all in drag racing, POWER STAGES and tuning advice? Please
.What I can tell you is our signature represents what we have accomplished and based on the facts, E.T.'s and trapspeeds, you should be the one taking our advice not the other way around. When you finally hit 11's, come back and post your expert thoughts on how to go fast and create power. By that time we will be running 10's @ 128+ on the stock turbo using parts we purchased, not handouts from other vendors.
This is by far one of my favorite posts!!!! Somebody got burned bad!
May 8, 2006, 08:33 PM
#32
Blah blah blah. THere are no facts there. Just crap you like to spew instead of TALKING about the real facts, which present themselves in the very first post. We can see the before and after results. Why do you keep ignoring that? There was a max loss of 120wtq for a max gain of 38whp. You blame it on the turbo, but I blame it on the change in cam gear settings. If this is not the case, then show us another dynograph where it DOESN'T respond like this.
I hit 12-flat all on my own with no help and with hardly any money spent. I can't help it if I've moved to 6000' altitude and can't hit 11s or that I gained 0 from a cam install. You love to point out the sponsorships while degrading me, but we really know the source of your comments here - pure jealousy. I know, it's hard to swallow, but it's dripping from your post. So you went faster with far, FAR more mods and parts than I will ever obtain and did so at sea level. Great job. No one has gone faster on the stock turbo at this altitude, so I'm not doing so bad despite anything you say. I accomplished what I did before any sponsorships with much, MUCH less, so your snide comments are irrelevant when speaking of mod paths and drag racing. You haven't done anything I couldn't do with the same gaudy amount of mods and power, so give it a rest.
Now that we have that childish bickering out of the way, can we please return to the DYNOGRAPH, which is the ONLY thing that means ANYTHING in this thread. It lost _tons_ of spool and _tons_ of torque to gain a bump of 38whp up top. If that doesn't happen on the stock turbo or any other 50-trim, then please show us. We have no reason to assume it would behave any different when this is the only example we have...
I hit 12-flat all on my own with no help and with hardly any money spent. I can't help it if I've moved to 6000' altitude and can't hit 11s or that I gained 0 from a cam install. You love to point out the sponsorships while degrading me, but we really know the source of your comments here - pure jealousy. I know, it's hard to swallow, but it's dripping from your post. So you went faster with far, FAR more mods and parts than I will ever obtain and did so at sea level. Great job. No one has gone faster on the stock turbo at this altitude, so I'm not doing so bad despite anything you say. I accomplished what I did before any sponsorships with much, MUCH less, so your snide comments are irrelevant when speaking of mod paths and drag racing. You haven't done anything I couldn't do with the same gaudy amount of mods and power, so give it a rest.
Now that we have that childish bickering out of the way, can we please return to the DYNOGRAPH, which is the ONLY thing that means ANYTHING in this thread. It lost _tons_ of spool and _tons_ of torque to gain a bump of 38whp up top. If that doesn't happen on the stock turbo or any other 50-trim, then please show us. We have no reason to assume it would behave any different when this is the only example we have...
May 8, 2006, 08:50 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Blah blah blah. THere are no facts there. Just crap you like to spew instead of TALKING about the real facts, which present themselves in the very first post. We can see the before and after results. Why do you keep ignoring that? There was a max loss of 120wtq for a max gain of 38whp. You blame it on the turbo, but I blame it on the change in cam gear settings. If this is not the case, then show us another dynograph where it DOESN'T respond like this.
I am sure you can get another hundred or so in there before the night is up.
I hit 12-flat all on my own with no help and with hardly any money spent. I can't help it if I've moved to 6000' altitude and can't hit 11s or that I gained 0 from a cam install. You love to point out the sponsorships while degrading me, but we really know the source of your comments here - pure jealousy.
I praise myself daily for denying your sponsorship and with every one of your pompous arrogant posts, my decision is confirmed, so please continue reinforcing it for us. I feel for the vendors that have contributed all these free parts with no improvement in performance from you. What a waste... 
Now that we have that childish bickering out of the way, can we please return to the DYNOGRAPH, which is the ONLY thing that means ANYTHING in this thread. It lost _tons_ of spool and _tons_ of torque to gain a bump of 38whp up top. If that doesn't happen on the stock turbo or any other 50-trim, then please show us. We have no reason to assume it would behave any different when this is the only example we have...
The fact that the customer is happy, is making more 13% more whp on top of us running 11.28@122.08mph not needing the no lift shifting as you do in every gear is enough to convince most knowledgable members whose advice to take and not to take when wanting to go fast. Good Luck with the 11's Doctor Drag
.
May 9, 2006, 05:38 AM
#35
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Warr
When you two were both at Sea Level, it wasn't quite so hard to boast, knowing the heat and humidity in FL was hurting the times down here. Now you understand why you need cams and "gaudy parts" to make the power, and use it as a crutch in almost every post. You are a great driver, but you do not know humility. Every drag discussion you enter, will eventually lead to a comparison to your ET's and trap speeds.
As far as the cam gear settings needing a retune, the A/Fs go out of whack, but in my car they do not go lean so I really don't care. I have swapped them back and forth with no harm to "my" engine, so Im not too worried about it. I have a wideband so I monitor it closely, no harm no foul, is it optimal? Hell no, but I am not the super tooner, nor do I care to be. I will get the car flashed for these new settings and I guarantee a flatter curve. I have every faith in John and Scott and thier abilities. The dyno chart you are looking at is untuned, just a camgear change, It was done to show the difference in hp up top, which is where the MPH is coming from. It would be foolish to think the curve would not improve once tuned. The question was, how are cam settings increasing MPH, well now you have your answer..... almost a 40 hp increase. On the drag strip, if you are driving correctly you won't dip below 6K, and this is where the power is with these particular settings. There is a give and take with everything, I choose to have top end, that is why I have 280's. I drive on the highway and at the track, I am not a stoplight street racer. Every one makes choices based on thier driving characteristics. Personally, unless you live on a road course / autocross, I think anything less than a 272 is a waste, the cars just run out of breath way too quickly.
When you two were both at Sea Level, it wasn't quite so hard to boast, knowing the heat and humidity in FL was hurting the times down here. Now you understand why you need cams and "gaudy parts" to make the power, and use it as a crutch in almost every post. You are a great driver, but you do not know humility. Every drag discussion you enter, will eventually lead to a comparison to your ET's and trap speeds.
As far as the cam gear settings needing a retune, the A/Fs go out of whack, but in my car they do not go lean so I really don't care. I have swapped them back and forth with no harm to "my" engine, so Im not too worried about it. I have a wideband so I monitor it closely, no harm no foul, is it optimal? Hell no, but I am not the super tooner, nor do I care to be. I will get the car flashed for these new settings and I guarantee a flatter curve. I have every faith in John and Scott and thier abilities. The dyno chart you are looking at is untuned, just a camgear change, It was done to show the difference in hp up top, which is where the MPH is coming from. It would be foolish to think the curve would not improve once tuned. The question was, how are cam settings increasing MPH, well now you have your answer..... almost a 40 hp increase. On the drag strip, if you are driving correctly you won't dip below 6K, and this is where the power is with these particular settings. There is a give and take with everything, I choose to have top end, that is why I have 280's. I drive on the highway and at the track, I am not a stoplight street racer. Every one makes choices based on thier driving characteristics. Personally, unless you live on a road course / autocross, I think anything less than a 272 is a waste, the cars just run out of breath way too quickly.
May 9, 2006, 07:44 AM
#36
Amusing thread . . . I especially hope the ignorant individuals who continually preach that cam gears aren't worth anything read through it.
Significant changes in cam timing will create profound effects on performance. In this case, the peak power increase is created by delaying the intake valve closing point and significantly reducing overlap.
The PROs:
- Smoothens the idle of long duration cams (e.g. HKS 280s).
- Reduces the detonation threshold - can use more ignition timing
- Increases peak power in rpm range used for drag racing, which increases trap speeds
The CONs:
- Slows spool time
- Reduces midrange torque and slows response - feels soft on the street
The good thing about cam gears is that one can make the change in a matter of minutes.
Significant changes in cam timing will create profound effects on performance. In this case, the peak power increase is created by delaying the intake valve closing point and significantly reducing overlap.
The PROs:
- Smoothens the idle of long duration cams (e.g. HKS 280s).
- Reduces the detonation threshold - can use more ignition timing
- Increases peak power in rpm range used for drag racing, which increases trap speeds
The CONs:
- Slows spool time
- Reduces midrange torque and slows response - feels soft on the street
The good thing about cam gears is that one can make the change in a matter of minutes.
May 10, 2006, 04:54 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Ted B
.
Significant changes in cam timing will create profound effects on performance. In this case, the peak power increase is created by delaying the intake valve closing point and significantly reducing overlap.
.
Significant changes in cam timing will create profound effects on performance. In this case, the peak power increase is created by delaying the intake valve closing point and significantly reducing overlap.
.
And just for referance how much can a evo IX retard timing with its mivec ?
May 10, 2006, 06:39 AM
#40
Originally Posted by matt55
So how much retarding of the intake is to much 8*, 10 , has anyone seen a dyno with more than -4.5* on thhe intake ?
And just for referance how much can a evo IX retard timing with its mivec ?
And just for referance how much can a evo IX retard timing with its mivec ?
May 10, 2006, 06:53 AM
#41
Originally Posted by matt55
So how much retarding of the intake is to much 8*, 10 , has anyone seen a dyno with more than -4.5* on thhe intake ?
And just for referance how much can a evo IX retard timing with its mivec ?
And just for referance how much can a evo IX retard timing with its mivec ?
May 10, 2006, 07:29 AM
#44
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...0&page=1&pp=15
They did a test , and the HP at 7k looks to be 20 hp higher than with the intake cam "0'ed" out , static . So I was assumeing that the intake cam was retarded to make more hp at that rpm , i have never seen/read where advancing the intake cam would make more hp at that 7000rpms .
And I have watch out for you , cause your not telling us everything you know ei "0-24 on a stock map" , but you didnt say anything about a reflashed map....
They did a test , and the HP at 7k looks to be 20 hp higher than with the intake cam "0'ed" out , static . So I was assumeing that the intake cam was retarded to make more hp at that rpm , i have never seen/read where advancing the intake cam would make more hp at that 7000rpms .
And I have watch out for you , cause your not telling us everything you know ei "0-24 on a stock map" , but you didnt say anything about a reflashed map....
May 10, 2006, 07:36 AM
#45
Originally Posted by matt55
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...0&page=1&pp=15
They did a test , and the HP at 7k looks to be 20 hp higher than with the intake cam "0'ed" out , static . So I was assumeing that the intake cam was retarded to make more hp at that rpm , i have never seen/read where advancing the intake cam would make more hp at that 7000rpms .
...
They did a test , and the HP at 7k looks to be 20 hp higher than with the intake cam "0'ed" out , static . So I was assumeing that the intake cam was retarded to make more hp at that rpm , i have never seen/read where advancing the intake cam would make more hp at that 7000rpms .
...
And I have watch out for you , cause your not telling us everything you know ei "0-24 on a stock map" , but you didnt say anything about a reflashed map.
Neither my car or the car that was tested has MIVEC so we'll leave that for another thread.