shiv, do you think that the tme turbo out performs the new evo 9 turbo?

 

Fantastic post. Excellent summary. Here is a beer for you (I'd drink it myself but I quit.)

 

WR IX isn't a True 20G right? I read somewhere that the WR IX is the Stock VIII or IX turbo with a WR Wheel...

 

I haven't tried an evo 9 turbo on an evo 8 yet. But it is certainly going to be less responsive than the TME. Although I suspect it is capable of making more (how much more I don't know) power up top.

-shiv

 

Its Hawt

 

Wait are we talking bout the 5 blade or crappy 6 blade?

 

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!

 

You have to understand NONE of the turbos Dave has sold have been "true" 20G's, he's just been using the name to sell his upgrade. I can at least commend FP for coming up with a unique name instead of using an existing name to confuse the market more.

even MORE history....

BEFORE anyone knew about the IX turbos, back when the VIII turbo and TME's were all we had to think about....

FP came out with the WR-VIII and WR-TME. These were VIII turbos and TME's with FP's 5 blade WR wheel in them. Some people on this board claimed great results, some didn't. A lot of people got their hopes up early and bought these turbos before they had really been thrown to the fire.

Buschur thought he could "do better" and went to turbochargers.com to make a "20G". He took the existing (and OLD) 20G wheel design (6 blades) and had it copied for reverse rotation. It was also scaled down slightly to fit in the Evo's smaller 16G compressor housing.

Buschur tested his 20G-VIII turbo and said it "outperformed competitors" (wonder who he was talking about)

People forgot about the WR and started buying 20G-VIII turbos. After they were out for a while people started realizing they had surging problems. Dave said this occurs on "some" cars and "some drivers won't have any surging" depending on their driving style.

The IX turbo came out......

Dave had the SAME 20G reverse rotation wheel from his 20G-VIII put in the IX turbo. The larger compressor cover of the IX fixed the surging problem. Power gains were big over an VIII turbo (stock IX's make more power than VIII's too, mind you) and the crowd went wild.

See above post about the WR vrs the 20G IX's.

My questions is this....

If the 20G wheel was so superior to the WR wheel in a VIII housing, why do they perform the same in a IX housing? (granted, I'm an engineer, so I can find the possibility that this is true but logic tells me that two wheels of different designs can't perform exactly the same)

 

Both!! See above!

 

I think it is fair to remind that the BR 20G development was going on a long time before the WR was released.

And if I recall (having called them myself at the time about it) Turbochargers.com was working to develop a ~400HP capable stock turbo upgrade before there was any mention of the BR 20G project.

The history of this issue is long and I believe more complex then has been discussed on any forum... Who knows the deal behind the curtains with the individuals and companies...

Seems that many have been scrambling to get a working design in to play resulting in combined efforts... I for one commend the efforts of the folks that have worked hard to fill this demand...

With no disrespect intended...

Now it's a question of us consumers having good options that produce the results marketed to. I think we all have expectations (stock-like spool, good HP TQ gains with pump gas over just about any stock turbo and bolt-on setup, etc) and the companies selling have something to try to fit that expectation...

Does it? Hard to say as most of the testing seems to shows results in situations that we can't really verify... It' either a dyno variance, race fuel, water-alcohol injection, etc... I mean it's tough for us consumers...

To me an upgraded turbo makes more power in most situations, even on an otherwise stock car... Heck the TME, the 05 10.5 hot side addition, stock 9 turbo, etc show benefits on stock cars from the factory, right? Not with other staged modifications they make more power... No cams, no exhaust, no IC... Just a turbo and tuning there is a gain... Seems much simpler than is explained...

I mean a better turbo is a better turbo, right? Other parts help make it shine? I don't doubt that for a second... Sure they do... Required stages to make the turbo even appear to work at all? I don't think so... Mitsubishi does it year after year...

I am sure if you bolted a BIG turbo kit on a stock EVO and added a tune it would show more power... More air and more fuel...

Not sure why the results are so hard to verify on these... Maybe they aren’t and it is simply the forums and all the posturing that covers the truth... Who knows...

Now it's all about politics and people in the know won't even speak in forums to help balance the scale...

Chris

 

They should put a summary like this at the begining of every thread that goes more than 5 pages. It's like cliff's notes for EvoM. Good job.

 

We knew about it longer.... but it would also be just as understandable if FP just kept their outh shut until their WR was actually ready instead of telling us about it before it's ready and then getting bombarded with phone calls asking "is it ready? is it ready?" like Buschur did ever since they mentioned it.

 

I know I just wanted to see what Shiv would say about it. Honestly I looked at the graph of the guy that made 390whp on pump with REAL 20G and it was not far from the spool from my turbo. It seem to be a really nice turbo but I really like the AMS 50trim kit and seems to be a monster on pump. Maybe one day, I will make the splash into a bigger turbo.

 

Thanks SuperHatch, for a great summary. I too was really confused between the 5 blade and 6 blade saga and with the different turbos. Your synopsis is great!

 

+1