The California Smog Law(s) Thread [MERGED]
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Sac
Here's another interesting page I found.
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...d-199919.html?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...d-199919.html?
2007 and newer Subaru's use CAN (Controller Area Network)
Beginning in 2008, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) requires 100% of the vehicles sold in the USA to use the CAN Bus communication protocol
I'm still trying to educate myself on this, but basically it seems like any car with CAN is going to give EVERYTHING up.
All parameters are easily read.
This looks like bad news for tuned vehicles.
Got the Info below from a post I found on another forum after doing a search:
This is what will be read using Mode $09:
- CAL ID for each segment.
- CVN for each segment.
- VIN of your vehicle.
they then use the VIN to look up a database containing valid CAL ID and CVN values for your VIN
(this is already in place for 2005+ cars)
if your car is a 2005+ they will definitely see the differences in CVN values.
if your car is 2000-2005 they may still be able to pick up on these differences, even tho they didn't legislate for a database for cars prior to 2005; that doesn't mean they don't have a means of looking up and checking (they have had the ability to store the CAL ID and CVN values from all your previous smog tests, and they have the computing ability to detect differences, they just can't necessarily compare them to the OEM values)
Cars after 2005: they legislated that the OEM's provide the cal ID's and CVN's for each VIN in generalized database format; the BAR can compare values read from vehicle against the generalized database.
for your car to pass the PCM had to do these things:
- show no codes present,
- set all the Readiness tests to Ready (2002+ one is allowed to be Not Ready),
- set all the O2 test results to values indicating pass;
- control fueling/timing to produce emissions levels that are within the sniffer limits.
A scanner is also able to read these things (defined by OBD-II since its inception):
- Mode 6 test results (theses will show that you have codes/sensors turned off),
- calibration ID's and CVN's
Beginning in 2008, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) requires 100% of the vehicles sold in the USA to use the CAN Bus communication protocol
I'm still trying to educate myself on this, but basically it seems like any car with CAN is going to give EVERYTHING up.
All parameters are easily read.
This looks like bad news for tuned vehicles.
Got the Info below from a post I found on another forum after doing a search:
This is what will be read using Mode $09:
- CAL ID for each segment.
- CVN for each segment.
- VIN of your vehicle.
they then use the VIN to look up a database containing valid CAL ID and CVN values for your VIN
(this is already in place for 2005+ cars)
if your car is a 2005+ they will definitely see the differences in CVN values.
if your car is 2000-2005 they may still be able to pick up on these differences, even tho they didn't legislate for a database for cars prior to 2005; that doesn't mean they don't have a means of looking up and checking (they have had the ability to store the CAL ID and CVN values from all your previous smog tests, and they have the computing ability to detect differences, they just can't necessarily compare them to the OEM values)
Cars after 2005: they legislated that the OEM's provide the cal ID's and CVN's for each VIN in generalized database format; the BAR can compare values read from vehicle against the generalized database.
for your car to pass the PCM had to do these things:
- show no codes present,
- set all the Readiness tests to Ready (2002+ one is allowed to be Not Ready),
- set all the O2 test results to values indicating pass;
- control fueling/timing to produce emissions levels that are within the sniffer limits.
A scanner is also able to read these things (defined by OBD-II since its inception):
- Mode 6 test results (theses will show that you have codes/sensors turned off),
- calibration ID's and CVN's
Ya it sounds like they are comparing your vehicles ecu readings to known maps and data from their database. So if they have the info on what should be on a stock evo 8 ecu and you have your tuned, then ya it will fail because its not whats in their database. Oh boy, I don't see any chance of errors and issues with this.
I guess its time to register the evo in my nephews name, out of state.
I guess its time to register the evo in my nephews name, out of state.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Sac
Ya it sounds like they are comparing your vehicles ecu readings to known maps and data from their database. So if they have the info on what should be on a stock evo 8 ecu and you have your tuned, then ya it will fail because its not whats in their database. Oh boy, I don't see any chance of errors and issues with this.
I guess its time to register the evo in my nephews name, out of state.
I guess its time to register the evo in my nephews name, out of state.
I wish I could move! But really, I may try and just get an ECU and flash it for my VIN and keep it for smog purposes only every two years. PITA sorta, but better than having a shop flash and then reflash my current ECU.
Ugh, commiefornia. I won't be surprised if by 2030 our "leaders" come up with a mandate that makes everyone buy/drive an electric car, or ride a bike
I wish I could move! But really, I may try and just get an ECU and flash it for my VIN and keep it for smog purposes only every two years. PITA sorta, but better than having a shop flash and then reflash my current ECU.
I wish I could move! But really, I may try and just get an ECU and flash it for my VIN and keep it for smog purposes only every two years. PITA sorta, but better than having a shop flash and then reflash my current ECU.
oh geeze... dont let cams or people who think they know smog scare ya.. people pass with kelford 272s and gsc s2s all the time on 91.. just use the stock cat to pass!
heres proof kelford 272s pass
heres proof kelford 272s pass
One of my friends used to be a smog tech. His Evo was running Cosworth M3 cams on E85. With a factory cat installed even he could could get it to pass.
Last edited by deylag; Apr 20, 2014 at 03:00 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Sac
Awesome! Good to know fairly big cams can pass sniffer.
That's one of the setups I'm leaning towards, so great.Wow, M3s? I have my eye on a set of M2s, good to know I (should) be good to go!
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 205
Likes: 34
From: SoCal
My smog results a week or two ago. HKS 272/272, RRE Tune, and Stock Cat. No need to fret ya'll cam those Evos! The other person who posted his smog results should edit/crop the pic to take off the name/tech of the smog shop. Never know when a tree humping smog **** decides to go after your smog shop for passing modified cars.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Sac
My smog results a week or two ago. HKS 272/272, RRE Tune, and Stock Cat. No need to fret ya'll cam those Evos! The other person who posted his smog results should edit/crop the pic to take off the name/tech of the smog shop. Never know when a tree humping smog **** decides to go after your smog shop for passing modified cars.
Back on topic, what cam setup should I go for? I can get a set of 264/272 HKS cams for $240 local, or GSC S1s from FFtec for $450. Is there any need to upgrade the springs with those cams at all?
I really want these cams to last me and pair well with my next turbo upgrade, which will most likely be a FP BB Red. But I also want to stay totally driveable, because this is my daily.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 0
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From: 626
I'm a star certified CA emissions technician and I have performed smogs on quite a variety of cars in my carrier.
Typically you would be able to squeeze by just running a cam, unless there is heavy mileage on the motor. The supporting mods (ie big turbo, larger injectors, HFC) are normally the ones that defecate the emissions.
Typically you would be able to squeeze by just running a cam, unless there is heavy mileage on the motor. The supporting mods (ie big turbo, larger injectors, HFC) are normally the ones that defecate the emissions.
