Are you telling me a fact or something you think is true??

Any and all piggybacks that adjust a commonly used source of input will affect anything that is common to that source!

Meaning... the cars fuel map and timing maps use the same input, that being the MAS signal to adjust itself.

That being said lowering the MAS signal will place the timing at a lower point as well... raising the signal will raise teh timing point. Whether or not that point is advancing timing or retarding it needs to be checked via a logger. Usually lowering the curve has a tendancy to rais timing as it thinks it's in a lower part of the map where load is low and timing is high to get you going. As you raise the point things tend to retard as your higher in the map range... more suspected load... thus retarding of timing is needed to prevent detonation.

Check any dsm board... ask any one that tunes with any piggy(be it afc, safc, rrm, etc...) and they'll tell you the same. The more you tune out the fuel the more you effect the timing curve as they are dependant upon the same MAS signal to calculate where on the map it needs to be.

Now i could go into this way more but it's not needed. The point is that what i'm telling you IS correct. Just ask around and read a little more. If someone says NO, ask them to prove it. I think then you'll see they don't know what they are talking about.

This seems like i'm upset or something, but i'm not... basically i'm just dispelling any and all misleading statements.

Embrace the knowledge and enjoy...

 

I had a DSM with an SAFC on it, and a logger also. I have piles of log files with varying degrees of tune. The timing didn't change, as far as I could tell. It sure doesn't change much, if at all.

 

look at your files in WOT/open loop... the timing will change slightly. The bigger injectors you go the higher the change. Of course using a bigger turbo can counter that change. Higher cfm will eat up the fuel.

Small changes won't effect things much but tuning 660's out on my 1g shows me timing changes of 2-3 degrees in some areas.

Driveability area tends to be afr/voltage based since the car is trying to keep max efficiency under less load. Thus during tuning the closed loop area you'll find timing to fluxuate in the same areas as before tuning.

Think about why guys don't like using signal clamps to prevent boost cut... it locks in the timing and fuel setups to that particular MAS signal line. Thus as you adjust things the timing isn't changing as it should. Some find that engine's detonate a lot unless running real rich... then they hack the MAS... this buys some more room... then they upgrade the MAS to GM or 2G... all to manipulate the map so timing and fuel curves can be kept in tact and adjustable.

Agian.... this is way, way, way off topic hear i think. If you were/are a dsm guy just do some light reading on the dsmtuner.com boards. You'll find the same things being said. If you really doubt it just call up roadraceengineering and they can tell you the same things i am now.

 

^ i'll second what boe said.

 

So has anyone figured this out 100%? Has anyone had a chance to dyno their car after the SAFC?

 

BUMP... any new info? I want to buy this I am curious as to the gains on our car though. I got one guy telling me I shouldn't expect more than 5% (which seems reasonable) and another saying 10%.

 

10% is too much. i can see 5% the most 7%.

 

Thats what I was thinking. Anyone with one installed what are you opinions on it, do you like it, was it worth the money, etc.

 

okay. i've been reading some and wondered if anyone has gotten this to work off a karman reading? all the wiring diagrams indicate that the reading from the MAS IS A KARMAN READING.

comparatively, a map sensor runs a 0-5v voltage and runs linearly. under normal conditions, it would only really read 1.8-4.6v. a karman sensor runs a 5v voltage but run from 0-1200hz in it's readings. i'd try and get the karman sensor to work due to accuracy.

 

Dont care who says what, the AFC WILL NOT WORK with a ralliart.

 

tell me why. show me diagrams. give me reasoning. otherwise you're just another guy with an opinion.

 

It can be made to work, there is at least one person who has it working on their car. Problem is, of the ones who do have it working, I don't think any of them installed it themselves, but had a shop do it instead.

All the proper connections are there, and we know for sure that we have a Karman type sensor. There's no reason why it shouldn't work, just nobody has done it themselves and written a how-to. I know of one person right now who's trying to do just that. I would like to do it myself, but I don't have the $300 lying around to get the unit and then more to pay a shop to use their wideband

 

thanks. i PMed someone and hope he can help some. found out VAFC definately won't work. it doesn't support karman sensors. but then vtec and mivec work just about exactly the same. very similar sensors and very similar working voltages.

 

can someone tell me all the writing on top of the MAS? like on the sticker and stuff. a micro pic would be cool, too.

 

Here you go...