If this is true then you guys get screwed out of the Evo....again. I thought it was doin well up there though.

 

We know that but the average consumer may not. If they see a car that looks like the Evo, has a turbocharged engine like the Evo, has the same transmission as the Evo and the "same" diffs as the Evo, they may think it's basically an Evo lite. The exact problem we're talking about did happen with the STi/WRX before when they looked very similar.

 

As you said b4 the average consumer don't look at these cars. The average enthusiasts might but they will kno what the Evo is and more than likely want the performance of it rather than an AWD Lancer which wat the RA is. I'm pretty sure if you go to the Evo forums and ask would they buy an RA if this was to happen, i guarantee most will say they would buy the RA as a DD and have the Evo as a toy/track car or they would still rather solely have their Evo's performance. There are still quite a bit of differences between the RA and the X. Just because the RA have ACD doesn't mean it will overshadow the buyers ultimate decision in buyin an Evo. They are fundamentally different cars.

 

I'd be willing to bet that for the most part, the Ralliart, WRX, MS3, etc. are not driven by enthusiasts who mod and race their cars. Most are driven by people who like the way they look, like the brand, etc.
Be careful using the word fundamentally in that context, some members here will take offense to it and spend 10 posts arguing with you. Wait, that only applies if you're talking about a Subaru .

 

And history repeats itself... Subaru is literally canibalizing STI sales (not my opinion though)... You don't believe me? Go to the following blogs:

insideline.com
motortrend.com
caranddriver.com
autoblog.com
jalopnik.com
autoweek.com
roadandtrack.com

Go look at the "2011 Subaru Impreza WRX" threads, the one that talks about the new modifications and new flared fender and what not... do me a favor and read what every single user is saying... something around these lines:

"Oh, looks like an STI is not worth buying anymore, when the WRX is pretty much the same and way cheaper..."

That's the response of the average car buyer... we all know 5% of the people posting at those forums have some idea wtf they're talking about, and that few are still backing up the STI for being a different car, no matter how wide the WRX fenders become... So I assume Subaru is in the exact same position Mitsubishi would be if they released a 5spd Manual Ralliart with wider fenders.

If you look at a 2011 WRX and 2011 STI, they look EXACTLY the same... only the pink STI logo gives away the STI

Check this out:

 

If the problem is apparent for Subaru, it's even worse for Mitsubishi. Subaru made some aesthetic changes, but that's it. They didn't give the WRX wider wheels and tires, they didn't give it the 6-speed from the STI and there are still some very glaring drivetrain differences between the two cars. In the case of the Ralliart, the drivetrain already has limited slips front and rear, like the Evo, it already has an adjustable center differential, like the Evo, it already has the 4B11T, like the Evo, it already has nice Recaros (as an option), etc, etc. While the current Ralliart is very much a different animal from the Evo, if they suddenly give it wider fenders, wider tires, more performance oriented tires, and a bulletproof 5-speed, it begs the question whether the extra money for the Evo is worth it for a lot of people.

 

i actually work for mitsubishi man i even asked mitubishi engineering them selves you will not see a mitsu ralliart manual in the coming years

 

Tune the ralliart and put on a extreme performance summer tires.

After you do that the most significant difference between the cars is the price.

 

Yes, the difference will be the STI badge. But think of the alternative for Subaru. They tried to dull down the WRX for the everyday plain boring person, and sales plummeted around the world. They made nothing from it. STI sales weren't bad, but people still did not want the hatchback. So, they had to drastically change their thought process. Now, sure the widebody WRX will take sales off the STI, but for the "everyday person buying a car" it will re-ignite a passion for the WRX. Its kinda like damage control. It'll be this way for a few years to get them back on track, and then go back to having an independant design/setup for both cars. So its kinda "lose a bit now, to make a lot back in future" better than losing tons by keeping the car the same as now and in the future.

Mitsubishi haven't gone down this path yet because the Ralliart is technically still new and they don't know whether people bought the car because they think its honestly better than the WRX, or because of the bland look of the WRX.

I would hope that this change in the WRX will light a fire under Mitsubishi, and hope the boss got the whole R&D team incharge of future designs back to work early from this holiday season. Time for them to go into damage control.

B.T.W - has anyone heard any more on the Subaru/Toyota sports car that was in development. (Subaru's version, not the Toyota FT86)

 

I suspect Subaru will also use different wheels on the STI to help distinguish it but I agree they'll be very close. It'll be like the previous (04-07) STI to WRX relationship, from afar they can be hard to tell apart.

 

If this is with the supposedly new Ralliart (ie. with Evo fenders and 5-speed manual), I agree to an extent but if you're talking about the current iteration, they're still a few other significant differences.

 

Mostly young Enthusiasts, (18-25) give or take, buy these cars because they are more in the price range of affordability. But as the age go up and income you will find ppl would pay more for the performance of the "big dog". Of course i cant speak for everyone but if the RA had a 5 speed, wider fenders and in my price range i would still buy the Evo simply because it is just that, an Evo. When I drive that car i expect to get that Evo's heritage and be out performing Porsches and/or other cars that are twice maybe three times the price, whereas in the RA this won't happen w/o investing a whole bunch of money which would add up to or even exceed the price of an Evo. I remember arguing this with you with the WRX/STI discussion because i was defending my Mitsu but you were right and i believe as long as Mitsu keeps the power and performance gap reasonable they will have no problem.


I'm sure I can spank a stock Evo in a straight line right now with my set up, key word stock. You flash that thing and i will get ****ted on. You can put sticky tires and 17" RPF1's on the RA all you want but it still wont out handle the Evo at the track. There are jus too many components and factors that are in the Evo to make sure of this. No matter what you do the Evo will always be ahead in performance because that is what it's built for. You will never get the "feel" from the RA that you would from the Evo period.



Last thing i heard was that there won't be an AWD version because of cost issues, only RWD. Of course that can change in the future if it is justifiable.

 

I agree, I would buy the Evo as well but we have to face facts, we're not normal.
In the case of the WRX, it would definitely cost more than the price difference between it and the STI to bring it up to STI performance (all-around). You'd have to replace the entire drivetrain to get the 6-speed, the DCCD and the differentials, you'd need to open up the engine to replace the pistons and the cams and you'd need to put on Brembo brakes or a similar replacement. With wider fenders and a 5-speed, the Ralliart may not have the same issue. By all accounts, the block and head is the same as that in the Evo. Buying a replacement turbo and intercooler doesn't cost much and with the Evo's 5-speed, you could move to an FPGreen, FPRed, whatever without worry of destroying gears. The Ralliart already has limited slips front and rear and I suspect that if they do use the Evo's 5-speed, they'll give the Ralliart the Evo's front slip if they don't already. The center differential appears to be very similar as well. This leaves the rear differential which may be interchangeable but who knows on that one. Given the electronics behind it (yaw sensors), it could be a ***** to fit. This leaves the brakes that can be replaced with those from AMS or any other manufacturer. Without a direct comparison, it's hard to gauge exactly how this would work but it seems reasonable to say it would be very close. I think Mitsubishi is doing the right thing at the moment with the Ralliart in terms of keeping it distinctive and to essentially force people to step up to the Evo if they want Evo performance and Evo looks.
I agree completely with everything else you said, the Evo is an absolute beast on the track.

 

Like most of the salesman he has no clue what hes talking about. The evo wasnt here before due to legal and insurance issues arising from there being no cash bar on the front of the car. Since then the 8 and 9's are now legal in canada, as are the 10's. Mitsu would have to really step on its own toes before it would be illegal here again, which wont happen.

 

Bingo, they'd have to mount an airbag that in the event of a collision, destroyed the front end of the car.