Good Review From Top Gear
This thread should just die. It hasn't been about the Ralliart for pages now. Despite a moderator stepping in twice now, people are more interested in going after me than they are talking about cars.
Last edited by ambystom01; May 15, 2012 at 02:35 PM.
Hey Chi-Town, if Amby did not post, would this thread turn into such a useless pile of crap?
It's one thing to post facts and data, if he had any class, he would post it in a manner that nobody will get pissed off, hell even I mentioned that the WRX outperforms the RA, did I get shat on by everyone? No.
I respect your moderation efforts and these forums have turned into a great place, but to stop any more nonsense I suggest to find the root of the problem. Thank you.
It's one thing to post facts and data, if he had any class, he would post it in a manner that nobody will get pissed off, hell even I mentioned that the WRX outperforms the RA, did I get shat on by everyone? No.
I respect your moderation efforts and these forums have turned into a great place, but to stop any more nonsense I suggest to find the root of the problem. Thank you.
As to the nonsense stopping from this point forward, I guarantee it will stop, or infractions will begin being issued. There is no reason this cannot be discussed in a civil manner without resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
I took the time to read every single post in this thread, and I see nothing in Amby's posts that crossed the line into trolling or inappropriate. His responses were all reasonable, and in some cases, justifiably defensive. The root of the problem was clearly a select few - of which you were one - who couldn't see past their own bias to understand that Amby was in no way bashing the RA. Instead, the facts he presented to argue a point that differed with a statement (regarding the potential of the RA being greater than the WRX, which was completely unfounded and false) were unfairly judged as an attack on the RA.
As to the nonsense stopping from this point forward, I guarantee it will stop, or infractions will begin being issued. There is no reason this cannot be discussed in a civil manner without resorting to ad hominem attacks.
As to the nonsense stopping from this point forward, I guarantee it will stop, or infractions will begin being issued. There is no reason this cannot be discussed in a civil manner without resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Numbers are everything (performance numbers performance numbers sources 1 2 3)
both cars have similiar tires, which was completely false
RA's superior AWD system "makes no difference" in performance
Blatantly bashing the SST without even driving it extensively.
Both cars are great cars, however some sacrifices have to be made to compensate for other advantages. The money that Mitsu cheaped out on went into the SST and to most of us owning the car it's certainly worth the trade off.
Also you are claiming that not having a single positive thing to say about something and having all negative comments in a 2000 word essay is not bashing.
I guess you can also be so punctual as killing someone with a knife is not actually killing, it was the knife.
As someone said, this would be a perfect argument posted on a general forum where people can chime in on their findings and share insights, but this is a Ralliart forum and this amount of negative bashing is not required and will only create problems. We are all Ralliart owners and we understand the benefits this car brings to compensate for the loss of performance (compared to the WRX) or most of us would have sold our cars already and post on NASIOC.
I would wish you could pretend you are a happy RA owner and read over his comments once more, I am pretty sure it will be different.
I am not sure if you read every post, but here goes some points in case you missed:
Numbers are everything (performance numbers performance numbers sources 1 2 3)
both cars have similiar tires, which was completely false
RA's superior AWD system "makes no difference" in performance
Blatantly bashing the SST without even driving it extensively.
Both cars are great cars, however some sacrifices have to be made to compensate for other advantages. The money that Mitsu cheaped out on went into the SST and to most of us owning the car it's certainly worth the trade off.
Also you are claiming that not having a single positive thing to say about something and having all negative comments in a 2000 word essay is not bashing.
I guess you can also be so punctual as killing someone with a knife is not actually killing, it was the knife.
As someone said, this would be a perfect argument posted on a general forum where people can chime in on their findings and share insights, but this is a Ralliart forum and this amount of negative bashing is not required and will only create problems. We are all Ralliart owners and we understand the benefits this car brings to compensate for the loss of performance (compared to the WRX) or most of us would have sold our cars already and post on NASIOC.
I would wish you could pretend you are a happy RA owner and read over his comments once more, I am pretty sure it will be different.
Numbers are everything (performance numbers performance numbers sources 1 2 3)
both cars have similiar tires, which was completely false
RA's superior AWD system "makes no difference" in performance
Blatantly bashing the SST without even driving it extensively.
Both cars are great cars, however some sacrifices have to be made to compensate for other advantages. The money that Mitsu cheaped out on went into the SST and to most of us owning the car it's certainly worth the trade off.
Also you are claiming that not having a single positive thing to say about something and having all negative comments in a 2000 word essay is not bashing.
I guess you can also be so punctual as killing someone with a knife is not actually killing, it was the knife.
As someone said, this would be a perfect argument posted on a general forum where people can chime in on their findings and share insights, but this is a Ralliart forum and this amount of negative bashing is not required and will only create problems. We are all Ralliart owners and we understand the benefits this car brings to compensate for the loss of performance (compared to the WRX) or most of us would have sold our cars already and post on NASIOC.
I would wish you could pretend you are a happy RA owner and read over his comments once more, I am pretty sure it will be different.
I never said numbers are everything. In fact, I said in almost everyone of my posts that despite the numbers, people should decide for themselves which car is right for them.
Post #33
Both cars have their strong suits and both have their weaknesses. The WRX engine is undoubtedly more fragile than the engine in the Ralliart. However, the TC-SST is not as strong as the transmission in the WRX. It's a matter of picking your poison. If you want big power, neither car is a smart choice. If you want a quick daily driver, both cars are more than enough.
Post #19
Post #32
The Ralliart tires are classified as ultra high performance summer tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....dClar=Ralliart
The WRX tires are also classified as ultra high performance summer tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....andard%20Model
You are correct, the WRX uses 235 vs. the 215s in the Ralliart. Inside Line had them listed at 225 but obviously that was a mistake.
What I am saying is that deciding between the two cars boils down to personal preference, they are so similar that doing so objectively will be difficult. However, stock for stock, the WRX does perform better. The difference is not massive, but if you want to play that card, the WRX is the "winner". Should this dissuade anyone from buying the Ralliart? No.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....dClar=Ralliart
The WRX tires are also classified as ultra high performance summer tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....andard%20Model
You are correct, the WRX uses 235 vs. the 215s in the Ralliart. Inside Line had them listed at 225 but obviously that was a mistake.
What I am saying is that deciding between the two cars boils down to personal preference, they are so similar that doing so objectively will be difficult. However, stock for stock, the WRX does perform better. The difference is not massive, but if you want to play that card, the WRX is the "winner". Should this dissuade anyone from buying the Ralliart? No.
Post #45
The WRX is lighter however and that helps in all areas of performance. A modified WRX is just as potent as a modified Ralliart. Critically, what is true of the Evo is irrelevant; the Ralliart is not the Evo (that should be obvious). The Ralliart does not have AYC. It's fine to talk about the "superior AWD system" in the abstract but in real life, the difference is not nearly as big. The Evo is also helped out quite a bit by having some great tires.
The new WRX has 235s but it looks like the 2009 had 225s. Once again, both tires are listed as ultra high performance summers.
Yes the AWD system should be considered, as should the TC-SST, but that's personal preference. The WRX can and does perform just as well as the Ralliart despite it's "inferior" AWD system. You want people to take into account a 1 cm difference in tire size yet you dutifully ignore the fact the WRX does what it does despite having what you describe as an inferior AWD system. The two cars have advantages and disadvantages.
Yes the AWD system should be considered, as should the TC-SST, but that's personal preference. The WRX can and does perform just as well as the Ralliart despite it's "inferior" AWD system. You want people to take into account a 1 cm difference in tire size yet you dutifully ignore the fact the WRX does what it does despite having what you describe as an inferior AWD system. The two cars have advantages and disadvantages.
Anything else you wish to add? Maybe accuse me of posting anti-Semitic comments or killing puppies?
Post #67 sums it up nicely.
I don't own an X but no I would not agree. However, that is for subjective reasons. That is my entire point, deciding between the Ralliart and the WRX boils down to personal preference. My only issue was with the misinformation being spread by one member, namely that the Ralliart is a better performer in stock trim and that the Ralliart is superior in modified trim. Both those statements are false. The WRX is the better performer in stock trim and it is just as good in modified trim. Does this make it the better car? No, there are some aspects that cannot be quantified and that is why it is important for someone to drive both cars and then decide. I'm sure if you asked people on a Mustang forum, they'd agree a Mustang is better than an Evo. If you asked this on an Evo forum, you'd get a very different response.
Last edited by ambystom01; May 15, 2012 at 10:02 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Check one of your early posts, it was in the WRX vs. RA thread, you said the sst is not good (again blatantly without extensive test drives). I am too lazy to quote it now, I'm pretty sure you can remember.
So now you're going through all my old posts and bringing those into this?
Stalker much? I do find it funny how you're just picking random arguments against my posts and when they appear to fail, you just make up new ones.
Last edited by ambystom01; May 15, 2012 at 10:03 PM.
I am not sure if you read every post, but here goes some points in case you missed:
Numbers are everything (performance numbers performance numbers sources 1 2 3)
both cars have similiar tires, which was completely false
RA's superior AWD system "makes no difference" in performance
Blatantly bashing the SST without even driving it extensively.
Both cars are great cars, however some sacrifices have to be made to compensate for other advantages. The money that Mitsu cheaped out on went into the SST and to most of us owning the car it's certainly worth the trade off.
Also you are claiming that not having a single positive thing to say about something and having all negative comments in a 2000 word essay is not bashing.
I guess you can also be so punctual as killing someone with a knife is not actually killing, it was the knife.
As someone said, this would be a perfect argument posted on a general forum where people can chime in on their findings and share insights, but this is a Ralliart forum and this amount of negative bashing is not required and will only create problems. We are all Ralliart owners and we understand the benefits this car brings to compensate for the loss of performance (compared to the WRX) or most of us would have sold our cars already and post on NASIOC.
I would wish you could pretend you are a happy RA owner and read over his comments once more, I am pretty sure it will be different.
Numbers are everything (performance numbers performance numbers sources 1 2 3)
both cars have similiar tires, which was completely false
RA's superior AWD system "makes no difference" in performance
Blatantly bashing the SST without even driving it extensively.
Both cars are great cars, however some sacrifices have to be made to compensate for other advantages. The money that Mitsu cheaped out on went into the SST and to most of us owning the car it's certainly worth the trade off.
Also you are claiming that not having a single positive thing to say about something and having all negative comments in a 2000 word essay is not bashing.
I guess you can also be so punctual as killing someone with a knife is not actually killing, it was the knife.
As someone said, this would be a perfect argument posted on a general forum where people can chime in on their findings and share insights, but this is a Ralliart forum and this amount of negative bashing is not required and will only create problems. We are all Ralliart owners and we understand the benefits this car brings to compensate for the loss of performance (compared to the WRX) or most of us would have sold our cars already and post on NASIOC.
I would wish you could pretend you are a happy RA owner and read over his comments once more, I am pretty sure it will be different.
I'm sorry to say that it happened under my watch, and that some members here neither recognize nor respect the rights of others on the board and resort to name-calling and personal attacks on an unrelated subject. Nor can some members carry out an educated and civil debate while potentially having to cede their position in any way in light of facts brought forth within said argument. While it may have been a brief lapse in judgement, or perhaps an indication of more negativity in our future, this is no longer considered a relevant discussion, or even an argument; it is childish bickering, posing and posturing, and does not deserve to continue here any longer.
I'm not trying to scold or lecture here, though I'm sure it sounds like it. It just bugs the **** out of me to see this sort of thing happen among a group of "fellow" enthusiasts who should be capable of making rational decisions and being held responsible for their actions and knowing when to say enough is enough. In any case, it clearly cannot be allowed to continue any further and I apologize to those involved who did not deserve the treatment they received.
Last edited by 03chi-town0Z; May 16, 2012 at 07:14 AM.
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