Good Review From Top Gear
"Ignorant" means something completely different than "irritating". I know that that word has recently been used to describe frustrating situations or times in which people are blindly bigoted, but Amby is not "ignorant". That would imply that he has no idea what he is talking about. I can assure you that that is not the case.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 94
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From: IL
Can you please at least make an attempt to approach this discussion with a little maturity? That would be great.
Wrong car for what? If you bought this thing to be a track warrior, then yes, you bought the wrong car. If you bought this car to comfortably get around day to day and occasionally hit more complicated roads and the occasional track day, then this was a good purchase.
Wrong car for what? If you bought this thing to be a track warrior, then yes, you bought the wrong car. If you bought this car to comfortably get around day to day and occasionally hit more complicated roads and the occasional track day, then this was a good purchase.
It not the information ("facts" if you will) that is the problem, it is the manner of presentation.
Yes I get frustrated by Amby because of how he goes about his business, not the actual business he does. The "words" are entirely correct, but the manner with which he chooses to arrange them is quite obnoxious, the equivalent of back handed comments ("the WRX is better,the WXR is Better, the WRX is BETTER.....but hey the RA is just as good...wink wink).
It's funny how ever person who reads his words makes the same summation ("facts" presented in a manner so as to entice controversy), but he also stands there with the "torch of truth"as his defense (i.e. "find something false in my wordage"). It's the same thing that is wrong with the Western World ("you never TOLD me coffee was hot, so give me $100million dollars").
Call it a personal attack of you want, but it goes to credibility. It's the whole reason I turned away from debate and law (the principles are entirely correct, but the manner of usage serves no good); any "fact" can be found to defend any stance you want.
I know my car has serious shortcomings, I'm pretty sure I've made more than a few threads about them (one in which Amby tried to tell me that my brakes are perfectly acceptably for track driving; again arguing for the sake of argument). But the main difference, is we are all here to discover, rectify and improve upon these issues. Amby simply wants to walk up, point, and say "that is broken". There is no benefit or merit to this approach, and it only serves to hurt this community.
Yes I get frustrated by Amby because of how he goes about his business, not the actual business he does. The "words" are entirely correct, but the manner with which he chooses to arrange them is quite obnoxious, the equivalent of back handed comments ("the WRX is better,the WXR is Better, the WRX is BETTER.....but hey the RA is just as good...wink wink).
It's funny how ever person who reads his words makes the same summation ("facts" presented in a manner so as to entice controversy), but he also stands there with the "torch of truth"as his defense (i.e. "find something false in my wordage"). It's the same thing that is wrong with the Western World ("you never TOLD me coffee was hot, so give me $100million dollars").
Call it a personal attack of you want, but it goes to credibility. It's the whole reason I turned away from debate and law (the principles are entirely correct, but the manner of usage serves no good); any "fact" can be found to defend any stance you want.
I know my car has serious shortcomings, I'm pretty sure I've made more than a few threads about them (one in which Amby tried to tell me that my brakes are perfectly acceptably for track driving; again arguing for the sake of argument). But the main difference, is we are all here to discover, rectify and improve upon these issues. Amby simply wants to walk up, point, and say "that is broken". There is no benefit or merit to this approach, and it only serves to hurt this community.
Once again, not everyone agrees with you. In this very thread, people are on "my side". As for your comments on the law, there's nothing to say about that, just wow. If you get mad when people post data and are willing to stand by their comments, I suppose the law isn't for you.
Clearly you have a problem with me as a member and it has nothing to do with what I say. In this thread, I said both cars are good choices yet you continually jumped down my throat.
The Original post asked if there had been comparisons done between the Ralliart and the WRX. I answered that question and made it very clear that deciding between the cars is personal choice. How the **** is that a back-handed insult? This got heated quickly because Amby is unable to be open minded and look beyond the numbers. We have all agreed that the numbers favor the WRX out of the box, that is agreed upon, time after time he uses this and say everyone is butthurt, we are not, we know this, heck anyone would be blind not to search up ralliart vs. WRX before buying this car.
You can see the hate in his words, what frustrates me is how someone quickly judges a car with intense hate (posting negatives in every post), and yet how little he researches and knows about the car. One prime example is how he thinks the tire sizes on both cars are identical and tire quality are the same, clearly it is not.
What Amby need to accept is that there is more than just numbers at judging a car. How easy it is to mod, what are the limiting factors before any pinnacle is hit.
It is ignorance if you say negative things about a car and still think you stand a neutral ground by being punctual.
You can see the hate in his words, what frustrates me is how someone quickly judges a car with intense hate (posting negatives in every post), and yet how little he researches and knows about the car. One prime example is how he thinks the tire sizes on both cars are identical and tire quality are the same, clearly it is not.
What Amby need to accept is that there is more than just numbers at judging a car. How easy it is to mod, what are the limiting factors before any pinnacle is hit.
It is ignorance if you say negative things about a car and still think you stand a neutral ground by being punctual.
Both of you are constructing strawman arguments. You're implying I said things I didn't and then arguing against those falsely constructed positions. I never insulted the Ralliart or said it was a bad car. I never said numbers are everything. Yet, here we are, 10 pages later.
I have shown, with sources, that both tires are considered ultra high performance summer tires. Did you miss that point? I also admitted I was wrong on the size; the Ralliart has 215s while the WRX has 225s/235s (depends on year). Again, did you miss that point? Further proof that you're not actually reading what I'm posting but just arguing along party lines.
More false assumptions. I have done extensive research on the Ralliart. I find it amusing you want to call me out for not doing research while you have consistently ignored real data posted in this very thread. Once again, posting real data is not "negative talk".
Last edited by ambystom01; May 14, 2012 at 10:08 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 94
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From: IL
Not one bit I never intended on it being a race car. I just simply don't understand why everyone is only pointing out the negatives of it. Like I asked before is there any pluses to it? Sense everyone seems to be stuck on the bad points
My ra will never see a track nor did I want it for such. I now have a 3 week old baby.
My ra will never see a track nor did I want it for such. I now have a 3 week old baby.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 114
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From: Gulf Coast
I don't think Amby was trying to make anyone regret their purchase of the RA. He wrote several times that choosing between the 2009 and up RA and WRX will come down to preference as the performance numbers are not that far apart.
The fact that the 09 WRX and up outperforms the RA out of the box stock for stock shouldn't get anyone worked up; the numbers are all there for everyone to see and they're not miles apart and one can always up the other with minor changes.
This is what makes the Subie / Mitsu conflict necessary. I doubt the RA would be what it is today if the WRX didn't sell so well in the past, and with that, I doubt the 09 and up WRX would have had that dramatic refresh after 2008 if the 09 RA didn't come out with these specs.
Hell, on first observation, the entire Lancer and Impreza line up are nothing more than shots fired at one another from Mitsu and Subie.
The rivalry between these two are so bananas that it's easy to lose what both company has actually offered with both platforms:
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan<- outside of Mitsu and Subie, have fun emptying your wallet for an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or Volvo
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan with a dual clutch auto (anti-slushbox) <- outside of Mitsu, have fun emptying your wallet and losing your first born to pay to play with the same European high-end companies.
The non-luxury compact, small-size family sedan buyer who want's some ***** in his car when he hit's the gas pedal and make tight turns without slowing down to snail speed with true all weather performance is a tiny demographic; every time you see a WRX, Ralliart, STI, or EVO, there are ten drivers to each one that only want MPG and a safe way from point A to B.
I'm glad both Mitsu and Subie still offer us a ticket to play in the performance small family-size sedan world without the cost of a college fund.
I'm not worried if Subie apes every aspect of my car and poops on my specs by playing the +1 game on the numbers. I'd be more worried if Subie stops trying... that's the sign of the end game for our types of cars.
The fact that the 09 WRX and up outperforms the RA out of the box stock for stock shouldn't get anyone worked up; the numbers are all there for everyone to see and they're not miles apart and one can always up the other with minor changes.
This is what makes the Subie / Mitsu conflict necessary. I doubt the RA would be what it is today if the WRX didn't sell so well in the past, and with that, I doubt the 09 and up WRX would have had that dramatic refresh after 2008 if the 09 RA didn't come out with these specs.
Hell, on first observation, the entire Lancer and Impreza line up are nothing more than shots fired at one another from Mitsu and Subie.
The rivalry between these two are so bananas that it's easy to lose what both company has actually offered with both platforms:
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan<- outside of Mitsu and Subie, have fun emptying your wallet for an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or Volvo
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan with a dual clutch auto (anti-slushbox) <- outside of Mitsu, have fun emptying your wallet and losing your first born to pay to play with the same European high-end companies.
The non-luxury compact, small-size family sedan buyer who want's some ***** in his car when he hit's the gas pedal and make tight turns without slowing down to snail speed with true all weather performance is a tiny demographic; every time you see a WRX, Ralliart, STI, or EVO, there are ten drivers to each one that only want MPG and a safe way from point A to B.
I'm glad both Mitsu and Subie still offer us a ticket to play in the performance small family-size sedan world without the cost of a college fund.
I'm not worried if Subie apes every aspect of my car and poops on my specs by playing the +1 game on the numbers. I'd be more worried if Subie stops trying... that's the sign of the end game for our types of cars.
Last edited by roversix; May 14, 2012 at 10:00 AM. Reason: *Spelling Error
I just simply don't understand why everyone is only pointing out the negatives of it. Like I asked before is there any pluses to it? Sense everyone seems to be stuck on the bad points
My ra will never see a track nor did I want it for such. I now have a 3 week old baby.
My ra will never see a track nor did I want it for such. I now have a 3 week old baby.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
I don't think Amby was trying to make anyone regret their purchase of the RA. He wrote several times that choosing between the 2009 and up RA and WRX will come down to preference as the performance numbers are not that far apart.
The fact that the 09 WRX and up outperforms the RA out of the box stock for stock shouldn't get anyone worked up; the numbers are all there for everyone to see and they're not miles apart and one can always up the other with minor changes.
This is what makes the Subie / Mitsu conflict necessary. I doubt the RA would be what it is today if the WRX didn't sell so well in the past, and with that, I doubt the 09 and up WRX would have had that dramatic refresh after 2008 if the 09 RA didn't come out with these specs.
Hell, on first observation, the entire Lancer and Impreza line up are nothing more than shots fired at one another from Mitsu and Subie.
The rivalry between these two are so bananas that it's easy to lose what both company has actually offered with both platforms:
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan<- outside of Mitsu and Subie, have fun emptying your wallet for an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or Volvo
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan with a dual clutch auto (anti-slushbox) <- outside of Mitsu, have fun emptying your wallet and losing your first born to pay to play with the same European high-end companies.
The non-luxury compact, small-size family sedan buyer who want's some ***** in his car when he hit's the gas pedal and make tight turns without slowing down to snail speed with true all weather performance is a tiny demographic; every time you see a WRX, Ralliart, STI, or EVO, there are ten drivers to each one that only want MPG and a safe way from point A to B.
I'm glad both Mitsu and Subie still offer us a ticket to play in the performance small family-size sedan world without the cost of a college fund.
I'm not worried if Subie apes every aspect of my car and poops on my specs by playing the +1 game on the numbers. I'd be more worried if Subie stops trying... that's the sign of the end game for our types of cars.
The fact that the 09 WRX and up outperforms the RA out of the box stock for stock shouldn't get anyone worked up; the numbers are all there for everyone to see and they're not miles apart and one can always up the other with minor changes.
This is what makes the Subie / Mitsu conflict necessary. I doubt the RA would be what it is today if the WRX didn't sell so well in the past, and with that, I doubt the 09 and up WRX would have had that dramatic refresh after 2008 if the 09 RA didn't come out with these specs.
Hell, on first observation, the entire Lancer and Impreza line up are nothing more than shots fired at one another from Mitsu and Subie.
The rivalry between these two are so bananas that it's easy to lose what both company has actually offered with both platforms:
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan<- outside of Mitsu and Subie, have fun emptying your wallet for an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, or Volvo
AWD / Turbo / above average HP and TQ compact sedan with a dual clutch auto (anti-slushbox) <- outside of Mitsu, have fun emptying your wallet and losing your first born to pay to play with the same European high-end companies.
The non-luxury compact, small-size family sedan buyer who want's some ***** in his car when he hit's the gas pedal and make tight turns without slowing down to snail speed with true all weather performance is a tiny demographic; every time you see a WRX, Ralliart, STI, or EVO, there are ten drivers to each one that only want MPG and a safe way from point A to B.
I'm glad both Mitsu and Subie still offer us a ticket to play in the performance small family-size sedan world without the cost of a college fund.
I'm not worried if Subie apes every aspect of my car and poops on my specs by playing the +1 game on the numbers. I'd be more worried if Subie stops trying... that's the sign of the end game for our types of cars.
Only if amby was as non-judgemental as you.
Uh huh, and this helps this thread how? Did you, once again, not read what I wrote? God, I love how a wut jr owner can agree with me and repeat what I said and everything is cool yet I'm somehow still wrong.
Last edited by ambystom01; May 14, 2012 at 10:19 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Haha sleep? What's sleep? It's all good. To be honest. I like hearing both sides. It doesn't change my mind one bit. I do how ever think my mind is turning to mush alas why maybe what I've said isn't fact. Doesn't the new wrx come with 17x8 wheels now? Hell I love learning specs(data) spread sheet anyone? My reason for getting my ra was for the tranny. My wife can't drive stick and she wanted to be able to drive the car and have fun in it as well. I think we did this thanks to the base map that we have. Now I need to figure out how to stop my baby from crying... Bottom change time.
Haha sleep? What's sleep? It's all good. To be honest. I like hearing both sides. It doesn't change my mind one bit. I do how ever think my mind is turning to mush alas why maybe what I've said isn't fact. Doesn't the new wrx come with 17x8 wheels now? Hell I love learning specs(data) spread sheet anyone? My reason for getting my ra was for the tranny. My wife can't drive stick and she wanted to be able to drive the car and have fun in it as well. I think we did this thanks to the base map that we have. Now I need to figure out how to stop my baby from crying... Bottom change time.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Oh god, I just fed the troll.
/end