here we go again.......


that was def an over view

 

It not the information ("facts" if you will) that is the problem, it is the manner of presentation.
Yes I get frustrated by Amby because of how he goes about his business, not the actual business he does. The "words" are entirely correct, but the manner with which he chooses to arrange them is quite obnoxious, the equivalent of back handed comments ("the WRX is better,the WXR is Better, the WRX is BETTER.....but hey the RA is just as good...wink wink).
It's funny how ever person who reads his words makes the same summation ("facts" presented in a manner so as to entice controversy), but he also stands there with the "torch of truth"as his defense (i.e. "find something false in my wordage"). It's the same thing that is wrong with the Western World ("you never TOLD me coffee was hot, so give me $100million dollars").
Call it a personal attack of you want, but it goes to credibility. It's the whole reason I turned away from debate and law (the principles are entirely correct, but the manner of usage serves no good); any "fact" can be found to defend any stance you want.
I know my car has serious shortcomings, I'm pretty sure I've made more than a few threads about them (one in which Amby tried to tell me that my brakes are perfectly acceptably for track driving; again arguing for the sake of argument). But the main difference, is we are all here to discover, rectify and improve upon these issues. Amby simply wants to walk up, point, and say "that is broken". There is no benefit or merit to this approach, and it only serves to hurt this community.

 

So... In less than 48 hours this thread, and our sector of the forum, has taken a huge dump on everything we are supposed to be here for. To be honest, all of the crying and name-calling makes me a little embarassed to be a part of, and it shames ME that I failed to catch it and prevent it from progressing sooner.

I'm half tempted to just close this and be done with it, but I hate to sever communication completely as silence ultimately leads to ignorance.

To the few involved in the nonsense (I'm not calling out anyone specifically, but I pray that you know damn well if this is directed toward you) take this as a verbal warning to knock it off.

As anyone here should know, I am a great fan of debate. I am often one of the first to incite heated discussion and often enjoy continuing it IN A CIVILIZED MANNER. The thing that people need to remember here is that argument requires, not only fact and data, but an open mind willing to accept speculation and opposing argument; as well as potential personal investment into the matter whether it be emotional, monetary, or whatever.

For those who haven't been around on the forum as long as others, yes, Amby gets into a lot of fights. The thing you may not know, however, is that the majority of the time, it is not because he is being argumentative (ok, sometimes it is), but because there are so many people here unwilling to even consider any truths other than those they hold so dearly. Another big problem is that communication via text is so cold and is always open to interpretation. This leads to any minor inaccuracy, misnomer, or misinterpretation being construed as argument or insult and often leads threads like this well off-course.

Argument and discussion are invaluable on a forum like this, but the insults and *****ing are worthless and down-right shameful.




In Re: the original topic, the WRX has been proven to be a better performer out of the box in its pure, un-adulterated form. Whether it be for one reason or another, the testing has been confirmed by multiple sources.

Once you begin to modify ANYTHING all bets are off and we are no longer discussing "stock-for-stock" comparison. Even giving the RA an equally sized/rated tire constitutes modification and deviates from the original production model and thusly negates any results obtained after said modification. If both cars were not viable options as commuters, as well as very tuner-friendly "big boy toys" they would no longer be in production as there would be no market for them, it's as simple as that. Buy the car YOU like the most based not only on performance, but all aspects of the vehicle (performance, aesthetics, comfort, etc.) and do with it as you will to achieve your desired result.

 

 

This got heated quickly because Amby is unable to be open minded and look beyond the numbers. We have all agreed that the numbers favor the WRX out of the box, that is agreed upon, time after time he uses this and say everyone is butthurt, we are not, we know this, heck anyone would be blind not to search up ralliart vs. WRX before buying this car.
You can see the hate in his words, what frustrates me is how someone quickly judges a car with intense hate (posting negatives in every post), and yet how little he researches and knows about the car. One prime example is how he thinks the tire sizes on both cars are identical and tire quality are the same, clearly it is not.
What Amby need to accept is that there is more than just numbers at judging a car. How easy it is to mod, what are the limiting factors before any pinnacle is hit.

It is ignorance if you say negative things about a car and still think you stand a neutral ground by being punctual.

 

Remember that derogatory and hateful are two different things. Just because Amby's responses show the RA to be inferior to the WRX that does not make them hateful. He was answering a question posted by another member in regards to stock-for-stock comparison using factual data presented by independant sources 3 years ago. Yes, there is much to consider since then. Different tire sizes doesn't matter any more than different engine/turbo/transmission/whatever configuration. Stock-for-stock is simply that, nothing more. While changing tires WILL level the playing field, it will no longer be considered an "out-of-the-box" comparison.

 

Guess we all bought the wrong car... Ain't that a pain

 

Right. I agree with you.
Being derogatory towards a car with much negative talks before owning neither and doing extensive research is what caused this heated argument.

 

Tho is it just me or has nothing good been said about the ra? Common there's got to be at least one thing good about it right?

 

If you do, Amby will quickly shoot you down
Using such argument "not feel a difference"
Let's just say our cars are garbage deemed by Amby.

 

My uncle has a Range Rover Autobiography. It's super charged. You think stock vs stock our ra can compare to a 5816 pound tank. Our car is what 3300 pounds?

Sorry, tryin to use numbers, just called my uncle to get the weight off his manual haha
As for the ra... Used a thread off here and averaged the weights

 

The Ralliart is better looking than the WRX. IMO of course

 

Woot!!! We have looks!!! If only looks could kill... Pissed off vacuum cleaner? Or cat fish? Well at least I'd does not sound like a pissed off weed whacker like other cars.

 

The whole point, though, is that you don't need to own a car to get an objective opinion on which car "performs better" in a choreographed, specific set of tests. Certainly driver ability, circumstance, any number of minute variables come into play, but most reviewers on a professional level attempt to remove as many variables as possible to offer a consistent test to accurately gauge a vehicle's capabilities. While this is basically (I believe) what was trying to be said from the get-go, it's not often that Amby's presentation and demeanor can be considered tactful, but that is a different matter altogether.

For example, I'm sure the 0-60 was from a dead stop, and we all know that without brake-boosting the RA is a big fat pig off the line, but the reviewers didn't take that into consideration, nor did they need to. There are multitudes of other variables like this one that can be used to argue that the test results were skewed and that the overall experience is much different than advertised, but that is why you should gather information from multiple sources and always test drive a car before blindly purchasing based on pure data. I believe this is the point that you are trying to make, and it is a very logical point, but it is very difficult to quantify an individuals driving experience and that is why the industry offers baseline comparisons that should be taken as an answer, not the answer.

I open myself to your further insight in the matter, as it should have been presented in the first place.

The way in which the argument was conducted is what pisses me off and doesn't belong here. That is my gripe. Argue and debate all you want but handle it accordingly.

 

Can you please at least make an attempt to approach this discussion with a little maturity? That would be great.

Wrong car for what? If you bought this thing to be a track warrior, then yes, you bought the wrong car. If you bought this car to comfortably get around day to day and occasionally hit more complicated roads and the occasional track day, then this was a good purchase.