Actually methanol ends up being cheaper than denatured alchohol.......so i have found at least

PJ

 

Much cheaper - I bought 55 gals for $150

 

What are some common places to get it that arent in 50gal drums because I still live at home and mama dukes is already sick of all my parts covering the garage.

 

55 gals -> 5 gals -> 1 gal

1 gal is super expensive because of repackaging. I buy a lot of these for work because its "convenient". They are like $26/gal for a plastic jug from a place that sells chemicals. Its tech grade, 99%. $65 for the 5 gals @$13/gal.

 

i go to eastside cycle its 3 somethin a gallon sooo cheap

PJ

 

you can get it at any motorcycle/ATV/dirtbike shop they always have it...hope that helps. go to walmart and buy a jug for it and go in a fill it up enjoy haha

PJ

 

Dons hotrod shop and townsends has it too, ~3/gal

 

Thanks guys - I have a cycle place VERY close by so Ill check if they have it, I know they carry 112 race gas because my brother buys his there.

 

The Aquamist pump uses a combination of viton and nitrile rubber seals. All rubber absorbs alcohols and swells. The small dimensional increase will increase frictions between the moving piston and the seal and results in extra wear. Although the seal itselfs only cost about 10 cents and 30 minutes to replace but nevertheless annoying.

In colder environments, the effect of the methanol acting on the seal is much less. I was quotating the "worse" case. In winter time, the seal is expected to work without any extra wear at 75%. At 95%, it lasts for months - how many months will depend on how the frequency of use.



We have been supplying free replacement teflon seals for anyone who wants to run other mixtures than M50/W50. We might supply teflon seal as standard if the trend persists. Running 100% methanol is trouble free.

Richard

 

+1
Can someone answer this question? In short, what is the duty cycle of the pump when kicks in initially?

 

Almost all shurflo-based progressive WAI systems uses either a variable linear 12V voltage controller or chopped DC controller to vary the pump speed to control flow.

Linear controller requires a big heat sink to keep things cool due to some unwanted energy is dissipated onto the controller components. It works well because the energy supply to the pump is absolutely smooth.

Chopped DC controller works very similar to a PWM signal normally feeding to the fuel injectors. It is basically a "train of voltage pulses" feedng the pump winding. The duration and the frequency of the pulse varies accordingly to control the pump speed. The energy supply to the pump is normally quite abrupt compared to the linear controller but in return, the control components dissipate less heat and requires a small or no heat sink so a neater, smaller housing can be used.

Other chopped DC techniques are available with better performance but often requires more expensive components and intensive electronic circuit designs involving many feedback loops- bad designs often works worse than the simple chopped DC method.

All progressive controller has a control voltage input, depending on the design, the control voltage is linked up to either to the MAP sensor voltage, MAF sensor or any analogue sensors. It will be up to the designer to use this voltage-controlled link to interface with the sensors.

Commonly, a 0-5V control voltage for the pump speed can be connected directly to the MAP sensor's 0-5V output to give 0-100% pump speed change. In reality, the MAP sensor voltage (load) goes pass a few control stages so that the users can vary the starting point % and finishing point %.

It all sounds quite logical and simple in theory but in practice, a few drawback occurs. First of all, the pump'as rotationg mass cannot response to the fast control signal accurately due to the inertia of the motor winding assembly. As a result, delivery rate will not follow the boost spikes especially during a gear change. A partial shutting of the throttle during shifting results in partial flooding of the inlet tract. Other issues such as "flow" against "motor speed" is not strickly proportional due to the choking effect of a restrictor (nozzle).

We do supply custom Shurflo based system but based on a the conventional technique simlar to a fuel injection controller, Shurflo pump just provides a constant pressurised source. It will require a flow sensor to monitor the delivery so "plan B" option is available when needed.

Richard

 

The effective duty cycle is normally decided by the manufacturer, it requires to match the operating range of a given size nozzle. For example, a small nozzle requires a smaller start-up duty cycle or it will reach the chokng point too soon and the delivery will become static and non-progressive.

For more details, you need to contact your own progressive controller system manufacturer.

Richard

 

I know I haven't read the full thread, and my humblest apologies if this information has been covered, but I have some good thoughts on water-injection. Even if this is lengthy, I'll try to make it concise so that it does not waste any more time than it needs. Please feel free to flame if I am just beating a dead horse.

1) Water injection, without alcohol, has been known for over 50 years to increase power on engines. How much? DEFINITELY NOT as much as alcohol! But the power gain is there. NACA (aka NASA) researched it extensively.

Here are some interesting graphs on BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) for various water and/or meth injections from NASA's research: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ntercooled.jpg

2) Water injection requires more ignition advance. This is because of an increased delay before the rapid burning progresses. It's an extension of the Flame Development Angle and was carefully researched by the folks at Linkoping University using an ionization sensor: http://www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/Publ...PhD_580_LE.pdf

The increase in flame development angle makes it appear as though the combustion process is moving more slowly. However, according to that research, the actual burn rate of the fuel is not affected once the combustion process gets underway. It merely means that you DO have to tune differently for water injection.

3) Water injection CAN be used to substitute excess fuel in boost conditions without LOSS in power. Gaining power is more subjective and depends on many other variables. I am NOT claiming that you will get huge gains by using straight water. I only claim that you can replace SOME, if not most, of the excess fuel under boost. (and water is cheaper than gas) Remember: any fuel beyond 13:1 A/F ratio does NOT burn. Neither does the water. Both are for cooling and it takes a LOT less water to cool the charge than fuel.

4) Part of the advantage of adding meth to the water mixture is that the methanol speeds-up the combustion process and helps to compensate for the slowing Flame Development Angle. I do not, however, have sufficient information to make any claims about the exact differences between a "properly tuned" water-injection setup and a "properly tuned" meth/water injection setup. And, by "properly tuned", I merely mean tuned so that the power cannot be increased without either reaching detonation or an unacceptably high EGT. (Which is what the tuning limit should be anyway, but that's for another thread.)

And sooo ... yeah.

Hopefully that made sense and I don't sound like some crazy idjit without a cause.

-Adrian

 

Thanks for your info Richard!!

So Al, with your alky kit (7lb NOZZLE), what is the duty cycle of the pump when it kicks in initially? Is it somewhere in the range of 50% of its max setting?

 

SAAB has also recently (a few years back) published their press release on aa automotive journal regarding their proposed WI car for the 21st century, but project ceased when GM bought them - pity!

We were very disappointed after three years of work with them.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/coollin...ess/press.html