https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...3&postcount=43

How much meth would I have to add to a tank full to get the octane up to say, 108? Do I need to run 108 all the time?

 

I use it because I've witnessed a tremendous improvement in power, and I haven't yet even upped the boost pressure yet. If my results can be duplicated with water, I haven't seen it . . . anywhere.

 

Wow, so Rich, did you figure out your alky kit problems? haha 8 pages of pretty good discussion.

Bottom of page 8, Richard, EXACTLY!

Why is it that nobody else on here picked up on the failure that could happen with an alky kit? While the chances of a failure are very low with the SMC/Buschur kit the chance does exist as the chance of failure always exists with anything.

From what I am reading it is suggested that in order to create power with water injection the AFR's on pump gas have to be run in the 12.-:1 range. This is what is being suggested. Personally I wouldn't consider tuning a pump gas combination in the 12:1 AFR range. This is just my preference.

My worry would be running that very lean mixture (lean for pump gas) and then having a problem with the water injection.

I stand by my choice to run 100% alky in an alky injection kit. I can tune a car (but can't tuna fish) with an AFR safe enough that if the kit fails the engine does not and still make a big increase in power.

To each his own.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Hi Ted, did you trim fuel and advance timing................or is it add R-OH and *BAM* instant gain in performance?

 

Yes, we trimmed the fuel and timing to the limit for 93 oct, then 93 + methanol - fair and equal comparison.

I gained around 50 ft lbs with a 2psi increase in the midrange, and saw an increase of ~35whp with ZERO boost increase at the peak. Those numbers are on a DD dyno, so tack on another ~15% for equivalent gains on a Dynojet. The torque will go up further now that I can add another 4-5psi of boost in the midrange (next dyno session).

Not too shabby.

 

Not yet, but I haven't had time (or good weather) to mess with it yet.

 

These days, you don't need to do it yourself, you can actually get the alcohol enhanced fuel from the pump. I am not sure how much alcohol should be add to achieve your goal of 108. I believe methanol itself is only 107 octane.


Read this excellent thread by Hotrod below:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=e85

or further reading.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/part3.html
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/part4.html

 

David,

I am learning about alcohol injection - no reason why we can produce one for the EVO market.

I am interested in your target afr for the 100% alcohol system and approximate alcohol/fuel ratio that you feel comfortable? If it is a trade secret, I wouldn't be offended if you don't answer.

Richard

 

I think I'll stick with methanol. I don't see the evo on this list. http://www.e85fuel.com/pdf/2006_ffv_list.pdf

 

Do you have an idea of the R-OH injected to gas ratio. And is it in progressive or on/off mode that you are operating? I'm also curious what is your lambda reading is.

 

The ratio I'm using (as per my recollection) works out to about 33% of Methanol as a percentage of total fuel mass at max rate.

The unit is in progressive mode, activating at 10psi and reaching peak capacity at 20psi.

Lambda gradually tapers from 12:1 at the tq peak to 11:1 at the hp peak.

 

So thats 1/3 v/v% MeOH 2/3 v/v% 93 gas: they both have a density of ~0.8g/cc. Effective octane = (0.33*110)+(0.66*93) = ~98 @ max rate.
Thank you for the info!

 

No, I calculated that estimate is a percentage of mass, not volume. That equates to ~33% w/w MeOH to ~66% gasoline w/w, not v/v.

 

By the way Al, Aquamist kits can use straight methanol with the change of a couple seals and in stock form can handle 75% methanol. Aquamist kits are not only used for water injection. Many of the benchmarks with the aquamist kits are with a 50/50 mix.

 

Since gasoline and methanol has similar density, it doesn't really matter if your calculation is done by volume or mass.

I do have some concern with your set up, if you run out of methanol, you will be taking nearly 14% fuel out of your engine. If the afr at full-load is 11:1, taking 33% alcohol out will leave you running at close to afr of 13:1 !

Consider your "plan B" soon.