Twin-scrool vs. Open scroll test!
WOW I just read everything Geoff posted and he commented on TWO of my posts; I must say I am ever so delighted 
.
I live in Central NJ, how far away are you guys becuase I want to pay a visit.
Thanks again and I hope this does in fact become the new standard in tuning.
THIS statement BTW sums it all up for me.
.I live in Central NJ, how far away are you guys becuase I want to pay a visit.
Thanks again and I hope this does in fact become the new standard in tuning.
THIS statement BTW sums it all up for me.
Originally Posted by JKav
This will be necessary to reflect the differences in blowdown characteristics between the two setups. Once the wastegate is open and you're at full boost, TS will show higher average backpressure due to lower turbine efficiency, but the cylinder on its overlap period will be isolated from seeing the exhausting cylinder's peak pressure pulse during blowdown.
This will be necessary to reflect the differences in blowdown characteristics between the two setups. Once the wastegate is open and you're at full boost, TS will show higher average backpressure due to lower turbine efficiency, but the cylinder on its overlap period will be isolated from seeing the exhausting cylinder's peak pressure pulse during blowdown.
WOW I just read everything Geoff posted and he commented on TWO of my posts; I must say I am ever so delighted .
I live in Central NJ, how far away are you guys becuase I want to pay a visit.
Thanks again and I hope this does in fact become the new standard in tuning.
THIS statement BTW sums it all up for me.
.I live in Central NJ, how far away are you guys becuase I want to pay a visit.
Thanks again and I hope this does in fact become the new standard in tuning.
THIS statement BTW sums it all up for me.
Scorke
That is the main advantage
The way Geoff describes it is that you no longer have the exhaust pulses fighting each other for space, causing more of the energy to be translated to the turbine wheel, not the exhaust manifold/ other pulses.
Scorke
The way Geoff describes it is that you no longer have the exhaust pulses fighting each other for space, causing more of the energy to be translated to the turbine wheel, not the exhaust manifold/ other pulses.
Scorke
Yup, that's it in a nutshell. I wana see what a TS 35R would do, I mean if you can make the 35R super streetable their will be no stopping the Evo in terms of the ultimate street setup. On a built 2.0 immagine having a power band from 4000-9000RPM's, it just doesn't happen with the larger displacement motors, it just would wind out and having it spool that much faster, I can't wait to see what a 35R TS would do, I just can't.
FWIW I rode around in a Stand Alone AMS 35R and got to play with it as well. VERY fast (stock bottom end like 535WHP on METH) but had nothing until it spooled. It really turned me off on the whole upgrade thing.
Now this comes along and I am excited all over again.
Not that I can afford any of this stuff, but the Engineering alone makes me interested.
FWIW I rode around in a Stand Alone AMS 35R and got to play with it as well. VERY fast (stock bottom end like 535WHP on METH) but had nothing until it spooled. It really turned me off on the whole upgrade thing.
Now this comes along and I am excited all over again.
Not that I can afford any of this stuff, but the Engineering alone makes me interested.
glad you guys liked the info, there is 4+ years of hard work and long hours behind that post... feel free to ask any other questions. Im not sure if you guys saw the 35R thread, but two things worth checking out are:
from honeywell/garrett
and courtesy of Borg Warner:
from honeywell/garrett
Twin Scroll Turbine Technology
Twin scroll turbine technology, which has been widely used in diesel engines for quite some time, remains an emerging technology for gasoline boosting. The theoretical justification for its application in gasoline boosting is very straightforward. Compared with single entry turbines, the twin scroll turbine technology delivers improved turbine performance due to the delivery of high pressure exhaust pulses directly to the turbine wheel. As a result, it provides better low speed performance, especially for four-cylinder engines. The difference between a diesel and a gasoline engine dictates that the successful adaptation of this technology to the gasoline sector requires considerable knowledge and expertise in materials, high temperatures, and aerodynamic design.
From honeywell's website.
Scorke
Twin scroll turbine technology, which has been widely used in diesel engines for quite some time, remains an emerging technology for gasoline boosting. The theoretical justification for its application in gasoline boosting is very straightforward. Compared with single entry turbines, the twin scroll turbine technology delivers improved turbine performance due to the delivery of high pressure exhaust pulses directly to the turbine wheel. As a result, it provides better low speed performance, especially for four-cylinder engines. The difference between a diesel and a gasoline engine dictates that the successful adaptation of this technology to the gasoline sector requires considerable knowledge and expertise in materials, high temperatures, and aerodynamic design.
From honeywell's website.
Scorke
and courtesy of Borg Warner:
I do find it interesting that most of the turbo ALMS cars, Rally cars, CHAMP CAR, use a an open scroll housing. I would figure that Audi with such a huge budget for the R10 TDI would use the best technology possible. Maybe the rules limit then to what they can run? Jason, you'd have some more insight then the rest of us on this one.
If they lost any power (I don't know if they did), it was at least partially because the housings they tested with were not designed as TS housings--they were modified existing housings. Sectioned, with a welded-in divider wall, then re-welded back together. A proper TS volute geometry would outperform those cobbled-up units.
As for the R10, next year will be veeerrrrrry interesting so stay tuned.
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He may have been asked to delete it, hence the apology post in its place. It actually wouldn't be too hard for AMS to do a test if they had the time. Seems like they would just need to track down a tial open 42r housing and mod one of the 42 manis for the v-band housing. It sounds minor but it would be a good chunk of time. Maybe Martin and the gang have it on the list already for the winter (secretly crosses fingers hoping they discover more time to donate).
Nathan
Nathan
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From: Arlington Heights, IL
I've already have a test of our GT42R kit vs. an open scroll HKS housing. The thing is the header is completely different, so it's not a great comparison. Sorry I have a bunch of things to say but I'm swamped being belief over here. A few days and I should have some more time.
A bit of perspective for readers of this discussion to consider . . .
Testing requires considerable time and money, and very few shops and tuners have the resources to test everything that comes along. If they don't already make it, it costs money. If they already make it, it still costs money. There isn't a shop or individual alive that has ALL the answers. Keep in mind that they learn as much from you and your experiences as you do from them.
Testing requires considerable time and money, and very few shops and tuners have the resources to test everything that comes along. If they don't already make it, it costs money. If they already make it, it still costs money. There isn't a shop or individual alive that has ALL the answers. Keep in mind that they learn as much from you and your experiences as you do from them.
I think the only reasonable comparison would be between Full-Race's single-scroll [inset turbo here] and twin-scroll [insert smae turbo here], since they were both built by the same company to be the best way they see fit. Wouldn't be the same as putting up against, say an AMS kit since they build it the best way they see fit.