Then buy an EVO X. There's no way that a hybrid-electric will come in that light, especially not if they go with the diesel engine as proposed.

In terms of sources: My information is more of an amalgam of research that I have conducted, including current Mitsu R&D; trends in the hybrid/electric vehicle industry; expectations based on CAFE, EU, Japanese, etc. mileage standards; current available technologies; and finally, precedents set by Mitsubishi and the Evolution line.

Mitsubishi currently raced the MiEV Evolution at Pike's Peak (Aug 12), and that car is regarded as the initial testbed for the new Evolution line. It's layout is similar to the one I described sans the extended-range ICE. It has 240 kW (three 80kW motors) and a 34kWh battery pack.

Based on that layout, the only logical place to add an ICE is in the front, in a split-series format with the front 80kW motor. This allows parity for extended-range/battery-charge-sustaining driving while also allowing for the performance advantages of an asymetric AWD system. Luckily for Mitsubishi, the EVO has never been a light car, and in truth, outside of the battery, the drive line for an all-electric AWD system will weigh less than the current, mechanical AWD system. Truth be told, a 500 lb difference between an electric version and an ICE version is miniscule. In most cases, it would be closer to 1,000 lbs.

Additionally, based on DoT research, there is no reason to put that large of a battery pack (34kWh) in a vehicle that will, ultimately, be an extended-range hybrid. The minimum useful all-electric range in a plug-in hybrid is about 10 miles (look up the useless plug-in hybrid gesture made by Toyota), while the ideal is 40 miles (which will meet the daily needs of 80% of all commuters). http://www.bts.gov/publications/omni...pdf/entire.pdf

In the case of Mitsubishi, I have faith that they won't screw things up as badly as Toyota, but since the EVO isn't a traditional commuter car, I wouldn't expect the electric range to be greater than 30 miles. And there is a balance to be struck between weight and range. A 20-mile range versus a 40-mile range will shave off almost 200 lbs, but a 10-mile range versus a 20-mile range will shave off less than 100 lbs. So the real question is, what does Mitsubishi consider that sweet spot to be?

By the way, the major concerns with battery weight at this point come down capacity usage and the thermal management system. A case in point for poor battery implementation is the Nissan Leaf. They overextended themselves in hopes of making an electric vehicle with a palatable range, so they allowed owners to overcharge and undercharge the battery (decreasing battery life/capacity). Furthermore, they decided to not install a thermal management system at all (possibly for weight and size considerations). What they ended up doing is overtaxing the battery so that owners are seeing a 10-20% capacity loss in the first year. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802 Since the EVO always has been (and hopefully, always will be) a performance vehicle, controlling the battery temperature and maintaining ideal state-of-charge will be first and foremost in their minds.

Anyway, this is what I'm seeing and hoping for at this point. Realistically, the lower output numbers are what we should expect. The higher numbers are a pipe dream (or maybe FQ400 redux). But one can dream.

 

So essentially, you made it up...

Here are a couple things I can guarantee you are wrong about:

1) It will not have 440 hp, let alone 500. All the talk is a 1.6 diesel paired with an electric that will supplement 60-80 hp. We are talking 350-380 MAX. The current EVO is 291, no way they jump up 150hp in one generation.

2) Top speed will not be 120...are you out of your mind. In a day and age where top speed is supposed to be an indication of performance, they will not limit their flagship car to 120.

 

agreed.

 

Holsets from factory on these? lol I see diesel so it's possible.

 

Welcome to the world of electric cars. Look up the MiEV Evolution, which is supposed to be the base for the EVO XI drive train. Three 80kW motors, which is the rough equivalent of 326 hp, and that doesn't take into account the internal combustion engine, which will have to be more than 100 hp for sure. I'll grant you that a diesel could be less horsepower, but not that much less (maybe 80 hp, at the lowest). If they go with diesel, the total power might be as low as 400 hp, but the torque would remain the same as I described. If they go with gas/E85, the total power would end up being between 420-440 hp (the low end of what I described). Obviously, and I already stated this, the high-end numbers are a pipe dream.

And in terms of top speed, what makes you think it will be higher than 120 mph? The EVO has never been a speed demon. The X is the fastest one to date, and it has a top speed barely over 150 mph. We're not talking about a Lamborghini or Ferrari, which wouldn't sell if they couldn't hit 200 mph; we're talking about a rally-inspired car where traction, handling and acceleration are its bailiwick. And in electric vehicles, the top speed will be far more limited than it would in their gas counterparts.

Either way, yes, I am estimating the final numbers, but those estimates are based on the technology that Mitsubishi already has in place and what they have proposed will be released. I've stated nothing new, since the EVO XI will be based on the technology and design of the cars listed below (plus whatever they choose for the ICE), it's not too hard to figure out what the car's specs will be. It's going to come down to market strategy, price point, etc. These are the numbers we know and can confirm for sure:

MiEV: 47 kW (63 hp), 133 lb/ft tq motor, 16 kWh battery, claimed 100-mile range
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

MiEV Evolution: Three 80 kW (326 hp), 35 kWh battery
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...miev-evolution

Now, you're right, it is possible that they will go an even cheaper route, which will only have three of the current MiEV motors (141 kW or 190 hp), plus an 80 hp or so diesel engine. So about 270 hp and 530 lb/ft tq total, but I hope they don't go that route, because I'm not sure that the performance will be what it needs to be (I can't see it breaking 5 seconds 0-60). It might be right for the RalliArt, but not the EVO (unless they can shave off 500-1,000 lbs, i.e., just over 3,000 lbs curb weight). I'd much rather see them save those 47 kW motors for other hybrid/electric cars and commit to using the 240 kw drive (~320 hp) train that they have already developed for the MiEV Evolution.

 

Ladogaboy, your hypothesis about the Evo XI corroborates everything that I have read about it. A number of times I have read about the 3 electric motor, one on each front wheel, giving the asymmetric drive. Given the fact that Mitsubishi decided to test out the MiEV Evolution at the Peak, one would logically assume that this was a tryout of the configuration in competition that will be used in the production variant.

Something lost on a lot of people is the fact that the MiEV Evolution placed 8th overall with a time of 10 minutes and 30.850 seconds. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...inish-its.html To put that into perspective, our own Dave Kern did a 10.20.774 in his Time Attack 2005 Evo. The MiEV Evolution beat a number of 1200 cc race bikes, several Unlimited class vehicles and many other Time Attack vehicles. Not too shabby. http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar133666.html BTW, people are expecting an electric vehicle to take an overall win at the Peak in the not too distant future.

I have read that the next Evo will be about 4,000 pounds. My wish and dream would be for Mitsubishi to employ some of their world class technology in composites to lower the weight. If the weight could be held to 3,500 pounds with the 3 electric motors and turbo diesel, I think we would see a very capable performing car worthy of the Evolution name.

 

It's good to see there is at least a little logic behind your methodology, but I still think you extremely oversimplified it. Just because they are running the i-MiEV Evo at Pikes Peak is hardly an indication that that's the next drivetrain for the EVO. Sure, there may be lessons that are taken from that that will be incorporated into the next EVO, but I don't believe it's going to be what you stated (3 electric motors and an ICE). That layout alone would push the car well into the 50's which is really getting high for a Mistubishi.

As for the top speed, electric motors have an efficiency range that they like to operate in. As long as you mate them with the correct gearbox, speeds in excess of 150 are easily achievable.

That said, ultimately we will have to wait and see what they do.

 

Well, I did hear that from several Mitsubishi employees. *shrug*

While it's true that electric motors can be mated to gearboxes, that adds weight and complication to what would otherwise be a very simplistic system. Look at how many problems Tesla had with their two-speed gearbox, which is -- relatively speaking -- extremely simple. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...ssion-problems

The concern I have is with the two electric motors in the rear. In the front, the electric motor and diesel(?) motor will probably be connected through a series of planetary gears, much like the Prius. That allows the motors to support each other when they normally would be operating outside of their peak efficiency. I'm not sure how Mitsubishi intends to do that in the rear.

What I would like to see is for them to figure out how to keep it all electric unless the battery is low or the car is in performance mode. Toyota screwed this up pretty badly since the plug-in Prius, even with a full battery, cannot go over 62 mph before the gas motor kicks on. If you just want to cruise down the highway, you shouldn't have to run on gas if you don't want.

Oh, and it should be noted that I find the idea of HOV stickers on an EVO hilarious.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I can't really see it being less that $50,000. This might be partly justified if some of the tax rebates are still in place, because you will, realistically, only be paying about $40,000, which will put it within a reasonable range of the current MR.

The cost of ownership will still be a bit less, but let's face facts, I've seen very few EVO owners who are concerned with cost of ownership. And on the bright side, there will be so few mods for this car in the first year, that it might as well be another $10,000 reprieve!

Any, in terms of pricing, I am interested to know if there will be different trim levels. If so, it's entirely possible that there might be a RS/GSR (though likely RalliArt) version that is based just off of the MiEV's current platform. Underpowered, in my opinion, but should come in at or below $40,000. One would hope, anyway.

 

Two problems with this:

1) You never said that's where you got your info.
2) Mitsubishi employee opinions are like buttholes...you know the cliche... Crap, I've had Mistubishi employees tell me there wasn't going to be an EVO at all...Unless they are EVO project manager, I would take it with a grain of salt.

There will be a gearbox...and they aren't hard to mate. An electric motor with a gear on the end works no differently than an ICE with an output shaft.


Seems like all electric would be simple. Have a user input determine if you want all electric or standard operation and vary the operation accordingly.

As for pricing, we will see exactly what offers still exist when it comes out, but 50k is getting a bit high for your average EVO owner.

 

just throwing this out... It might be a neat trick to have independent electric motors on the rear wheels and a IC motor for the front wheels. The ECU would decide when the rear motors lit up and provide power to them knowing what it needed for handling. Cruise with the IC motor.
No diveshaft to the back, no rear differential, no front diff. Simple front wheel drive drivetrain only.
But 4 wheel when needed performance.

 

Enough said.

 

diesel-hybrid and even more hideous then the current evo X ??? GOOD GOD........... i'll just stick my evo 8 and its good ol 4G63, and its dashing good looks!

 

i still don't understand why everyone's calling it ugly. we don't even know what it's gonna look like yet; you can't go by these stupid artist renditions.

 

Nice. Great to see you maintaining the divisiveness that some people have on this site. First of all, you have no idea what the XI will look like. Secondly, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I will quote a tuner friend of mine who has one of the faster Evo IX's in the country. "The VIII and IX are meh when it comes to styling. Yes, they are fast, but nobody pays any attention to them. When an X is behind you, you notice it right away and know that the car means business".