Very true! I can't remember where I saw it now, but I believe I saw reference to a synchronous motor - direct field control. That doesn't make reference to the type of drive (Voltage or Current Source - PWM or LCI). A PWM LCI has more options available and can be used with high enough carrier frequency to reduce the need for motor insulation... ie less weight and cheaper motors so I would guess that is the route they will go, but the need for field control requires additional weight for the exciter controller. Oh well, we'll see what we get.

 

Fabulous discussion about electric motors of which I know nothing. AC vs. DC and all the other nuances make for an interesting read. After seeing how well Toyota is doing with its hybrid TS030 LeMans car, I am excited about the next Evo. Toyota uses its HV-R both to run on electric power only in the pits and to supplement the power of the engine during time on the track. Braking helps to regenerate the batteries. This is cutting edge technology. Already, Toyota has beaten the mighty Audi R-18 e-trons. If Mitsubishi does this right, the next Evo could really be an evolution over the current model.

 

I agree with Ladogaboy...In this application, almost all signs point to an AC motor. Two permanent magnet AC motors powering the front wheels with programmable field control generators that can be used for braking or energy regeneration. Couple that with a diesel on the rear axle and you have yourself a capable and eco friendly warrior. The interesting thing will be the pricing point though.

I have a hard time seeing this have an entry point under 40k.

 

It really is a give and take with AC versus DC. The AC motor is lighter and has a better power-to-weight ratio, but its controller is larger and more complicated. The DC motor is heavier, but the controller is much simpler (people used to use "5-pot" controllers... basically five contact points to control current - in their home-brew electric vehicles).

As much as I'd love Mitsubishi to put the engine in the rear, I don't see them making that kind of design leap just yet. In terms of engineering, it's the right thing to do, but I'm not sure if they have enough experience in rear-engine configurations yet. If they did do rear engine, they'd be able to save, minimum 150 to 200 lbs. As it is, the EVO XI is likely to be well over 4,000 lbs.

Oh, and it will be lucky to come in under $50,000, but that's not so bad with the $7,500 to $12,000 in rebates and incentives.

 

Awesome posts both, and this is exactly what I have read both from Mitsubishi itself and from publications. Weight around 4,000 lbs. and price between 40-50k.

 

Any word on energy storage? I find it kinda hilarious that they call these hybrid and full electric cars eco-friendly. The rare/heavy used in semiconductor doping for the power components and batteries/capacitors is far more detrimental to the environment than the exhaust of an internal combustion engine over its life, but that is off-subject.

Anyway, any word on how we will be able to run off of battery power alone or any kw-h info yet? The weight and distribution will be a bit of a challenge for the engineers ... and aftermarket engineers for upgrading that capacity and keeping the weight down.

The more you can store up in those batteries, the more boost your going to be able to get off the line... you can get the full hp of that electric motor over the entire speed range (including full torque at 0). Then there will be the issues of slip control - you can completely manage that electrically... well, guess not with the back wheels, but... so many options when you go electric.

Also, the controllers are getting smaller and smaller... with a good I/O controller sampling at about 500us or (you can go faster, but not much advantage).. the controller could be just as small as the computer is now - the inverter will take up some room, but at the voltage/power we are talking about, it won't be huge... just heavy.

 

hmmm do you guys knw anymore info about the new evo / hybrid coming out? or should i just get the 2013 evo gsr

 

There must be an echo in here. I do believe you made the exact same post in the Evo confirmed no more thread. Why speculate? Get the 2013 GSR because it will be the last gasoline powered Evo. The next Evo will have a diesel hybrid and weigh more.

 

^^ can u link the info about it being heavier etc.. i cant find any info!! and yes im trying to get info cuz i might pick up the gsr this weekend.

 

^ You will have to search the internet for comments made both by Mitsubishi and the media. I have read of weight over 4,000 pounds, price between 40-50k, a larger size and more luxury. Of course, the drivetrain is supposed to be a 1.6 diesel turbo with electric motors. Performance has been speculated on, but some say it will be close to the current Evo. At this point, there is very little to go on. Get the GSR and be done with it. You won't regret it.

 

^^ thanks yeah its very hard to ffind any info... they trying to hide it... but i think it will be another 2years at the least for them to produce these....

 

I think they should hold off a couple years before releasing something this ambitious. If they could drop 300 pounds, and give us a turbo GDI motor that achieves 32mpg (gear the DSG with a nice highway gear, have an eco mode and race mode tune) and puts out 300hp, they have evolved the platform. VWs new Golf is lighter, Kia/Hyundau make a turbo GDI turbo motor with 274hp that achieves 32mpg... why can't Mitsu do that? It seems realistic in the near term and then switch to diesel/electric once it's ready for prime time. I just don't see this being ready by 2014.

 

saddest thing about GDI from KIA/Hyundai is that its licensed and inherited from Mitsubishi itself.
The thing that makes me happy is that new Outlander (2013 model) is lighter 100 kgs(*2.2 for pounds) than current edition in 2.4l trim, since Outlanders and Lancers share the same platform I think there is something to hope for.
I think that would get XI on par with IX spec-wise.

 

There won't be any numbers for the EVO XI just yet, but think of what the car is gaining and losing by using the GSR as a foundation. The GSR weighs over 3,500 lbs. What it is losing for sure are the differentials, driveline, and transmission. Those will be replaced by new drivelines (which should be much lighter), two to three motors (which will weigh, minimum 50 lbs each), a motor controller, an inverter/charger, and a battery (which will weigh about 300 lbs if they go with the Outlander PHEV battery). If they go with a turbo diesel, I imagine that it will be heavier than the current 4B11T, but I'm not sure to what extent.

Mitsubishi needs to do this now. They are already behind the times, and competitors are walking away from them as we speak. By doing this, they could be the first to market with a true, performance-based, hybrid-electric vehicle.

 

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/552...s-on-the-cards

Finally some recent news on the future Lancer, and hopefully gives us hints of what the new EVO will be like.