Used injectors ??? Aren't they cheap brand new? Why would you put E85 in your car before having the car ready - more fuel (injectors & pumps), new maps, etc., wideband, evoscan working? Seems like you want to send the engine to AMS while the trans. is at TRE .....

I wish we had E85 on the east coast

 

I would not recommend mixing any more E85 than that without a significant retune. Actually, a car with a stock map could benefit more than a reflashed car as the rich stock map would lean out to a very good and safe A/F ratio with a gallon or two of E85. I did see a set of 880s in the for sale section not too long ago. You may want to look around there. Also, I got my 1000cc injectors for $296.50 shipped brand new from an advertising vendor here on EvoM. Unless the used injectors are significantly cheaper than that it may be worthwhile to get new injectors.

-Paul

 

correct, they are not that much new and I'll probley buy them new. But if I can save some money on a good used set then . So far all the parts I've bought for the car have been used and I've been doing well with that so far
Megan TBE=$300
PWR FMIC with pipe kit=$500
05 MR turbo(500 miles)with perfect MAF=$250
DNP O2 housing(new)=$50
AVCR=$275
So thats $1375 instead of almost 3k retail, do the math. Now I can afford the TRE rebuild.
these were all inspected parts from local evo club members "friends"

As far as putting the E85 in now...
1. Wanted a cheap octane boost
2. didn't know my evoscan wasn't working till after I put the fuel in the tank
3. Wanted to log for knock, usually I mix in 4-5gal 100 oct per tank, and if I could increase the knock headroom for less $ then why not.
4. 1-2 gallons of E85 isn't going to blow my engine. I'm sure you know that. But AMS building me a stroker sounds tempting.

Basicly I had some logs saved from the current tune/fuel and just wanted to see how E85 would compare.
Getting 93-94 octane using a mix of 100 costs $10 more per tank
Getting 93-94 using E85 will cost me less than strait 91.
91 cost 2.67/gal
E85 cost 2.38/gal
Now I do understand that I may get slightly less milage per tank, but I don't think with the low ratio it will even be noticable. Of course I could use toulene or Torco but once again thats an additional expence I may not need to encure.
And as far as the car being ready for E85, as far as I'm concerned it is for that low ratio. But for running strait E85 ofcourse its not.
peace

 

Totally agree on the injector thing (see above post)
However, the reflash I have is mostly increased timing and a slightly leaner AFR, so I would have to agree/disagree to a certain extent on a stock map benefiting more than my particular flash from E85, total power produced I disagree.
If you mean additional power from the E85 alone, without any other changes then yes, I'm with ya there. And I think thats what you meant correct?So I guess what I'm saying is this

E85 is not only a cheaper mix to obtain the same octane as mixing 100 with 91, or even just 91 alone, but the current tune should have more power potential because of the charge cooling properties of E85, the advanced timing already in the tune, and a bit leaner AFR. As long as knock isn't an issue as its not on the (91/100) mix.
Once I get the logger working so I can log for knock, I'd like to do a few dyno pulls with my wife's IX on strait 91 vs 2gal E85 in the tank. That would be on a stock map. I'll be putting a MBC on her car soon, and I would suspect I could bump the boost up as well since those stock maps are so fat like you mentioned. Ofcourse I would be wanting to add some timing, but incase she fills up without adding E85 I can simply tell her to "turn this knob one turn this way....." instead of worrying about her riding the knock sensors too hard. If she wants to ride somthing hard, I'll take her into the bedroom.
Thanks for your input fellas.

 

What I meant regarding mixing E85 in with a stock map is that the addition of E85 would put the high load A/F ratio closer to ideal. With a tuned ECU you would be too lean with the addition of more than a gallon or two of E85.

-Paul

 

so how is the progress?
My tranny is coming out this week (I hope) so I won't be able to contribute any data for awhile.

 

So far I'm very happy with the results. My only concern thus far is total range given my decrease in fuel mileage. If I were to go on a road trip I would probably switch to 93 octane for the trip. This may become less of an issue as more E85 stations pop up. I think I've pretty much maxed out the White Rabbit at this point. Adding boost does not increase power and I haven't been able to find any more power by advancing the ignition timing.

-Paul

 

That is the sweetest thing I've read all week! You have a fuel thats soo good you've maxed out your config with no knock.

 

^^^makes me think you might want to sell me that WW soon.
Obviously I'll need a bigger turbo to take advantage of the KorN.
LOL na, if I go bigger I think I'll wait to see what the evogreens are doin.

 

confusion

 

That is completely wrong. If you tuned a car that rich it wouldn't even start. I recommend reading up on how widebands work. Lambda does not depend on the type of fuel being used, A/F ratio does. A lambda of 1 is equal to 14.7:1 for gasoline and 9.7:1 for E85. The reason I posted A/F ratios as lambda was to avoid people trying to tune as you are describing and dumping in twice as much fuel as necessary.

-Paul

 

So Paul, what lambda would you tune for? Obviously want to keep your 1.0 lambda low end, but should that taper down towards the top? Say .9 midrange, little lower maybe .8 peak torque, and hold that around to redline? Or is e85 ok to run a bit lean since the knock suppression qualities are so good?

 

ok, so what a/f ratio would I tune for when using e85??

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=3175

E85 stoich is ~9.7:1, depending on the blend of your favorite gas station. Typical gasoline stoich is 14.7:1.
14.7:1 = lambda 1 for gasoline
9.7:1 = lambda 1 for e85
All widebands read lambda and then multiply by a constant for a given fuel type to calculate an air/fuel ratio. Have you ever seen where you select the fuel type for a wideband's units, and the displayed a/f changes a LOT even though the car is running the same?
If you set your wideband units to gasoline, it takes whatever lambda value it reads and multiplies if by 14.7. So, if your wideband is configured to read gasoline a/f, then just divide the a/f displayed by your wideband by 14.7 to get the lambda.
If your PLX reads 14.7:1, the lambda is (14.7/14.7) = 1.0
If your PLX reads 12:1, the lambda is (12/14.7) = .82
If your PLX reads 11:1, the lambda is (11/14.7) = .75

Am I missing something here?
If i am using a wideband calibrated for gasoline, what a/f would i be tuning for?

 

11.5-12:1, though you can run a little richer. Paul says earlier what he tuned for. You tune the car like it was gas though its E85 if using a gasoline calibrated WB.

 

oh well thats pretty easy...

and i understand what your saying now, lamda never changes no matter what fuel you put in it.