Virtual Dyno Room-Dyno Simulator
Dont know if you can do anything with it but there is a free excel viewer you can dowload, i did and you can open it up fine in that and everything looks great but it wont let you edit anything without having excel not sure if there is anyway around that
99.99% sure i just got the simulator to work with OpenOffice too! If I don't have it posted up tonight (would be after midnight, east coast U.S. time) I will surely have it done for Friday afternoon.
Wow, this thing is getting freaking CLOSE to perfect,lol. So I figured out how to make the vehicle weight work for the Mustang simulations. Talked to a rep from MustangDyne today who gave me a little insight on how the Eddy Current load bearing system works and how the Vehicle Weight entered into the software has an effect on the load applied. I guess there is also a corrections curve applied to the HP/TQ results to further simulate the true power results for that vehicle weight. He quickly pointed out that he is NOT an engineer so he didn't want to be quoted on anything but he gave me a broad overview of how it works.
He mentioned 2 things that I should try with the simulator, first I should enter in the vehicle weight used by the Dyno Software (default is 3625 lbs but some shops actually try to get it closer to the vehicles true weight). He felt this would keep things more accurate once it was compared to a street-pull with the vehicles ACTUAL weight entered into the simulator.
The next thing he mentioned is that we might see a variance in the results during the first portion of the pull when comparing the dyno graph to the datalog results from the same pull. I forget exactly how he explained it but it had something to do with the eddy current system 'catching up' to the sudden change in force being applied to the rollers, which gets compensated by a correction curve in the software or something. So he said the rollers will first spin a little too 'freely' until the Eddy Current system can engage its resistance the rollers. So basically, if you're car is a lowend torque monster you may see higher power levels in the datalog results from the dyno pull compared to the printout.
I found this to have merit on some logs I saw and not so much on others so I don't know if this 'lag' is an adjustable thing and some shops have it dialed-in better than others.
Anyways, I tried calibrating the simulator as best as I could with the data I already had and the vehicle weights used by the dyno shops who gave me their logs. Pretty damn accurate when compared to actual street pulls with the vehicles ACTUAL weight applied! No two dynos are perfectly equal so I have to do an average so your Mustang Dyno results will vary with a +/- percentage that should keep you in the 'ballpark' of your local Mustang Dyno shop.
We'll see how you guys find it to work out with v5.4 when i launch it. So when you guys want to find your Mustang dyno #'s from a street-pull, just use your vehicles actual weight. If you want to dial in the Dyno Correction Factor from your local Mustang Dyno from datalogs taken while STRAPPED to the dyno, enter in the Vehicle Weight used by the dyno software. So basically don't worry about the dyno weights unless you're comparing actual logs from the dyno session.
Oh yeah, Evo X guys will have their vehicles in the dropdown list too
He mentioned 2 things that I should try with the simulator, first I should enter in the vehicle weight used by the Dyno Software (default is 3625 lbs but some shops actually try to get it closer to the vehicles true weight). He felt this would keep things more accurate once it was compared to a street-pull with the vehicles ACTUAL weight entered into the simulator.
The next thing he mentioned is that we might see a variance in the results during the first portion of the pull when comparing the dyno graph to the datalog results from the same pull. I forget exactly how he explained it but it had something to do with the eddy current system 'catching up' to the sudden change in force being applied to the rollers, which gets compensated by a correction curve in the software or something. So he said the rollers will first spin a little too 'freely' until the Eddy Current system can engage its resistance the rollers. So basically, if you're car is a lowend torque monster you may see higher power levels in the datalog results from the dyno pull compared to the printout.
I found this to have merit on some logs I saw and not so much on others so I don't know if this 'lag' is an adjustable thing and some shops have it dialed-in better than others.
Anyways, I tried calibrating the simulator as best as I could with the data I already had and the vehicle weights used by the dyno shops who gave me their logs. Pretty damn accurate when compared to actual street pulls with the vehicles ACTUAL weight applied! No two dynos are perfectly equal so I have to do an average so your Mustang Dyno results will vary with a +/- percentage that should keep you in the 'ballpark' of your local Mustang Dyno shop.
We'll see how you guys find it to work out with v5.4 when i launch it. So when you guys want to find your Mustang dyno #'s from a street-pull, just use your vehicles actual weight. If you want to dial in the Dyno Correction Factor from your local Mustang Dyno from datalogs taken while STRAPPED to the dyno, enter in the Vehicle Weight used by the dyno software. So basically don't worry about the dyno weights unless you're comparing actual logs from the dyno session.
Oh yeah, Evo X guys will have their vehicles in the dropdown list too
Last edited by Jack_of_Trades; Jun 25, 2009 at 11:15 PM.
Oh, if anyone is going for a dyno session and wants to donate some data I will need to know the following:
This will give me the most accurate data possible for comparisons
- 3rd gear datalog during a pull on the dyno and the UNCORRECTED dyno results
- 3rd gear datalog of a street-pull from the same day or same weather conditions
- Actual Vehicle Weight (plus weight of occupants during street-pull) or a close approximation
- Vehicle weight used by the dyno (if its a load bearing dyno)
- Tire size (ex: 235/45R17)
- Year of Evo
- 5-speed or 6-speed Transmission
- 3rd gear and final gear ratio's (only if different from factory spec's)
This will give me the most accurate data possible for comparisons
Last edited by Jack_of_Trades; Jun 25, 2009 at 11:29 PM.
WOW, just saw this thread.
Nice work JOT.
This is very cool.
The shop closest to me with an AWD dyno just closed down and now i have to drive 2-3 hours to just get a pull.
This will come in handy, so i dont have to keep making trips for dyno time, just trying to fine tune small stuff.
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Nice work JOT.
This is very cool.
The shop closest to me with an AWD dyno just closed down and now i have to drive 2-3 hours to just get a pull.
This will come in handy, so i dont have to keep making trips for dyno time, just trying to fine tune small stuff.
Subscribed
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very nice... I just ran some logs through and compared it to my DLL output on the same car. seems my DLL output is roughly between a Buschur MD and Dynojet in your software.
Wow, staying up past 3am working on this thing and then getting to work for 7:30am SUCKS! lol. Anyways, I figured I would explain a bit more about the Mustang dyno since I was half awake when I posted last night.
The Mustang Dyno will have very little difference in results whether you enter in a weight of 3300 lbs. or a weight of 3625 lbs. because of how its system works. If you set the dyno for 3625 lbs on a 3400 lb. car, the rollers will create the same resistance that a 3625 lb car would have. Which in turn would make your pull take LONGER to do than your street pull. Since the software is also using a vehicle weight of 3625 lbs., it will calculate out to be the same result. The only difference being that your pull will go through its powerband slightly slower than it would on the street so you really aren't simulating 'real-world' conditions perfectly.
Here is a street-pull example to compare:
3300 lb car with driver does a pull from 3k-7k RPM in 3.9 seconds
Same car with 2 passengers (3650 lbs) does the pull in 4.8 seconds
Since you know the second pull had more weight you enter in 3650 lbs into the simulator. The HP/TQ result will be the same for both pulls since the engine produces the same power either way, it just takes longer to move a larger mass.
The Mustang Dyno does the same thing only that the added 'weight' is produced by the load simulator on the rollers.
Now...Dynojets on the other hand REALLY benefit from the EXACT vehicle weight because its gonna have the same rolling resistance no matter how much you tell the software the car weighs. One pull at 3300 lbs(would go from 3k-7k RPM in 3.7 seconds) compared to the next at 3625 lbs entered into the Dynojet Software (would also go from 3k-7k RPM in 3.7 seconds)would result in the "heavier weight" pull reading higher #'s because it thinks you moved a larger MASS just as fast as the lighter one. Just like the simulator would. You'll notice I showed that the pull went faster on a dynojet. That's because it has less resistance applied than the Mustang dyno will, possibly causing you to tune the car in fuel/timing cells it won't use on the streets.
So, Mustang Dyno's using different vehicle weights won't hurt the #'s but it will have a small effect on how fast you pass through each 'cell' in your fuel/timing maps. According to the MustangDyne sales rep, this is actually good because it will ensure that your tune will still be sufficient if you are loaded with passengers or you are accelerating up an incline. He also suggested street pulls would benefit from a passengers weight being in the car when tuning to simulate this. He also pointed out this is why people will tune in 4th gear as well since the tune is forced to endure a bit longer in each fuel/timing cell (assuming your vehicle doesn't drastically change its cell 'path' will the larger load applied. With that said he actually prefers people to tune in 3rd with some additional weight rather than do street pulls in 4th gear for the sake of safety.
I hope this helps you guys!
Also, I will be adding a 'Dyno Shop' list to the simulator so multiple 'popular' dyno shops can be added as we all collect accurate data. It is stupid to bother with this for most people but I figured I'd add the feature and the users can opt to use it or not
The Mustang Dyno will have very little difference in results whether you enter in a weight of 3300 lbs. or a weight of 3625 lbs. because of how its system works. If you set the dyno for 3625 lbs on a 3400 lb. car, the rollers will create the same resistance that a 3625 lb car would have. Which in turn would make your pull take LONGER to do than your street pull. Since the software is also using a vehicle weight of 3625 lbs., it will calculate out to be the same result. The only difference being that your pull will go through its powerband slightly slower than it would on the street so you really aren't simulating 'real-world' conditions perfectly.
Here is a street-pull example to compare:
3300 lb car with driver does a pull from 3k-7k RPM in 3.9 seconds
Same car with 2 passengers (3650 lbs) does the pull in 4.8 seconds
Since you know the second pull had more weight you enter in 3650 lbs into the simulator. The HP/TQ result will be the same for both pulls since the engine produces the same power either way, it just takes longer to move a larger mass.
The Mustang Dyno does the same thing only that the added 'weight' is produced by the load simulator on the rollers.
Now...Dynojets on the other hand REALLY benefit from the EXACT vehicle weight because its gonna have the same rolling resistance no matter how much you tell the software the car weighs. One pull at 3300 lbs(would go from 3k-7k RPM in 3.7 seconds) compared to the next at 3625 lbs entered into the Dynojet Software (would also go from 3k-7k RPM in 3.7 seconds)would result in the "heavier weight" pull reading higher #'s because it thinks you moved a larger MASS just as fast as the lighter one. Just like the simulator would. You'll notice I showed that the pull went faster on a dynojet. That's because it has less resistance applied than the Mustang dyno will, possibly causing you to tune the car in fuel/timing cells it won't use on the streets.
So, Mustang Dyno's using different vehicle weights won't hurt the #'s but it will have a small effect on how fast you pass through each 'cell' in your fuel/timing maps. According to the MustangDyne sales rep, this is actually good because it will ensure that your tune will still be sufficient if you are loaded with passengers or you are accelerating up an incline. He also suggested street pulls would benefit from a passengers weight being in the car when tuning to simulate this. He also pointed out this is why people will tune in 4th gear as well since the tune is forced to endure a bit longer in each fuel/timing cell (assuming your vehicle doesn't drastically change its cell 'path' will the larger load applied. With that said he actually prefers people to tune in 3rd with some additional weight rather than do street pulls in 4th gear for the sake of safety.
I hope this helps you guys!
Also, I will be adding a 'Dyno Shop' list to the simulator so multiple 'popular' dyno shops can be added as we all collect accurate data. It is stupid to bother with this for most people but I figured I'd add the feature and the users can opt to use it or not
Last edited by Jack_of_Trades; Jun 29, 2009 at 09:45 AM.
Just an update since I'm still working on the revisions. On the 'USER SETTINGS' page there is now a list of dyno Correction factors preloaded plus a list so the user can add their own dyno shops data to the dropdown list (mustang,buschur MD,Dynojet,etc...) so now you can have your own label on the dropdown list (example: AMS Dynojet,CBRD Dyno,etc,etc...).
I removed 'User Correction #2' from the dyno graph columns and replaced it with 'Max. RPM Trim' so the user can decide how high they want the graph to go up to (ex: 6750 RPM,7250 RPM,etc...). This also comes in handy when the end of your datalog lands on an irregular RPM value which causes the end of your pull to have a 'tail' that sweeps upward/downward in an irregular manner due to the smoothing process. This might be hard to follow without physically seeing it to most of you but it will save users the time of deleting the last couple rows of their datalog until the power curve looks more natural.
I removed 'User Correction #2' from the dyno graph columns and replaced it with 'Max. RPM Trim' so the user can decide how high they want the graph to go up to (ex: 6750 RPM,7250 RPM,etc...). This also comes in handy when the end of your datalog lands on an irregular RPM value which causes the end of your pull to have a 'tail' that sweeps upward/downward in an irregular manner due to the smoothing process. This might be hard to follow without physically seeing it to most of you but it will save users the time of deleting the last couple rows of their datalog until the power curve looks more natural.
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If I may make a suggestion or two:
Data Entry sheet:
1) include a macro to auto filter tps > 95%
2) widen the LogEntrySeconds column so you can see the full name, some people are grabbing the wrong column from the log because it looks like another one
3) column c and d aren't wrapping correctly because it's too narrow as well.
4) support for overylaying 3 pulls, not just 2
DynoGraph sheet:
1) include evo 7 and evo 10 transmission options
2) Make a EVOM dyno correction standard drop down option so people aren't posting up random graphs and trying to compare cars. I suggest something between the mustang and dynojet since they are largely regarded as stingy and generous respectively.
Data Entry sheet:
1) include a macro to auto filter tps > 95%
2) widen the LogEntrySeconds column so you can see the full name, some people are grabbing the wrong column from the log because it looks like another one
3) column c and d aren't wrapping correctly because it's too narrow as well.
4) support for overylaying 3 pulls, not just 2
DynoGraph sheet:
1) include evo 7 and evo 10 transmission options
2) Make a EVOM dyno correction standard drop down option so people aren't posting up random graphs and trying to compare cars. I suggest something between the mustang and dynojet since they are largely regarded as stingy and generous respectively.