Interesting...although in my logs it looks like 220 is not the load that is often used. More like 250-280 is the average. especially after 3k RPM... this was why i had a concern of extending the load and rpm columns...

Thanks for your input!

-Ethan

 

Sorry to go slightly off topic here but....

I was under the impression that the "idle stability timing control" table was still not fully understood. If you could shed some light on the subject it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Paul

On topic....
I run big lift cams on my daily....and have no problems (anymore) with idle. As others have suggested, raise the idle timing to around 9*.

Also increasing the idle rpm a little will help as well. Remember though, as you raise the idle rpm you also move to a different load cell at idle. Things tend to shift to the right.

My car has timing set to 11* and rpm set to 1100. Big cams don't like to idle down low, and the lope drove me nuts because it shook the whole car.

The map that Jid2 posted is a generalization. Every car will experience a pull slightly differently.

Again, as others have said.....do a pull and plot your pull on your specific timing and fuel maps.

The general, very general, idea is as follows....

Get your fuel looking right (mid 12 during spool, then taper immediately to mid 11s and hold till redline). Then you can start with the timing. Generally..timing will decrease until peak load then start to increase out to redline. At any time you experience knock, back off the timing a couple degrees.

You don't need a dyno to tune a car.....you do need a dyno to tune a car perfectly.

Paul

 

does this look about right for a big map break down on a 2.3 + black?

 

^ You are close....

The 50, 60, 70 load cells are for idle with A/C on. Stock roms add timing to avoid stalling because of the increased load. You will see it at the 60 load.

In your case....spool would be from 2500 to 4250, 100 load on up.

I've never seen a car hit 80, 90, 100 load below 1500 rpm.

You probably have a little room to add some timing in the upper rpm for WOT....depending on your fuel of course.

Also, you could add a little timing in the 30-60 loads from 2500 up to 3500 as a way to get better cruise fuel mileage.

My 2 cents.

Paul

 

thanks Paul.

How about this revision:



I will adjust the timing as you recommended. This is just a really base map for now. no smoothing at all done yet.


EDIT: I am running e70 / e85

 

That looks a lot better.

To become even more accurate log a few pulls and determine where your turbo starts to build boost. Don't do it in just one gear....every gear is important for an ideal tune. Sure start with the common 3rd gear pull and smooth from there. Then repeat the process for 4th. 5th will require you to drive way too fast. For the sake of safety I don't recommend trying it. Use a dyno. 1st and 2nd can be done rather easily.

The reason I say to log pulls in every gear is because load will be different in every gear. In order to get you "ideal" tune you have to tune for all conditions. Generally speaking try to log each pull from about the same RPM up to redline. You will see that spool should be pretty much the same in every gear.

 

If you are running e70/85 I would ramp up the timing after peak tq. I run 4 * until peak tq, and then right after I ramp it up to hit 17 by 6700rpms and 19 by 7500. I am surprised you run that much timing at peak tq. I am pretty new at this too so double check my advice .

-Will

--edit: here is my timing map so far stock turbo 28-30psi (still dialing in, although today it felt like hitting 27 lol) once I get my boost plot solid and my TBEC running I will condense the 4's and add the surrounding areas...maybe add to the 4's to see what happens

 

Paul, IDLE STABILITY TIMING was very well described some time ago, I think by jcsbanks.
Anyway, there is a sensitivity parameter, typically 128, which I have not needed to alter on any cars. And there is a timing limit parameter, which fritzzes the timing at idle to keep the engine at the desired rpm. On the evo7-8 this is +/-8 degrees, and +/-3 degrees on the evo9.
On the evo8 with 272* cams I have reduced this to +/-3, with the base idle timing set to 8*. This gave a much improved and stable idle over just jacking the base idle up to 8-10*.

 

It wasn't that well understood. There is still a 3rd value that no one seems to know what it does.

 

Your timing at idle seems high to me at 14* I would back that off to 7-9*.

 

My timing at idle was also at 14* for S2's...Its now at 10* and idles pretty good especially when at operating temp. But from what ive seen I would keep it up around 9-10* but not at stock 5*. Although my car did idle ok with the 5* it is a bit more of a "stable" lope with the higher timing to compensate for the lost vacuum at idle.

Our timing maps are similar...looks like we may have had the same tuner

 

this is how the map converted to the big map, it was less blocky before, but i dont get this big map stuff. should i try to clone the 3d map of the small map into the big map? or is it important we keep axis the same at certain load values with the big map and just stretch the numbers to the right?

 

Thats a good question. I was debating on trying to do the Tephra V7 mod as well to get the big map and id like to have the CEL flash for knock. How was the process for you? difficulty? Im reading up on it now...

 

I just look for area of the map that were similar and copied that over first. Like between 120-200 load. I believe that both big and small have the same load cell steps in that area. I simply copied that area into the proper rpm range. Once you get all of the old rpm/load you have into the new rpm/load then blend it staying on the conservitive side for the one you are missing.

 

Easy, if you give me your maps ill convert them to big ones for you. - However I did not drive the car yet with these big maps so I don't know how its going to act. I dont like how it stretches from where the small maps break off max load (260) in my case and than the big map just stretches that number across to 350.. that doesn't seen like its going to do much imo. I was thinking about starting off with the stock v7 timing map and adjusting from there. the fuel map doesnt matter so much as the timing map.