211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Made but not fitted

Gonna go do that now

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Fitted and working .. Definite continuous turbo surge on lift. Needs more fuel or retard I think? I can't be certain I don't have any way to log yet

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Still need to sort out details but its on !

details of the ford fiesta with a similar type of anti lag valve are here..

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...-update-1.aspx

dolphin888

Why ALS hose is so long?

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Haven't trimmed it down.. The braided is hard to bend tightly .. Looking for some push lock style which is much more flexible.

I might be able to sneak 2 45* bends on there and get away with braided. I had 45 mins to get this sealed up. I still have to figure out the control scheme. The manifold holes definitely seem like the restriction..

A turbo speed sensor is 275 installed..

foxbat

Hey Ratsbud, did you get to measure that overrun turbo surge? Any where near 0 yet?
I still don't get it yet about factory ALS logic, sas is suppose to inject 'fresh air' into the exhaust manifold to help turbo surge, while extra fuel & ignition retard are meant to provide more exhaust gases & that's how antilag works on stand alone ECUs. Is factory ALS suppose to operate through sas only, or is it the combination of both SAS + ign rtd/fuel?
I'm beginning to suspect that SAS installation in street cars was just a facade by Mitsubishi to comply with rally homoligation rules & it was never meant to work on street car. The big mystery to me is those sas tables found the in the rom with all the zeros under 'air injection'!
Some times I feel that aftermarket ALS method might be easier to implement, it's just a question of being able to add fue/retard + ign cut ability to a stock ecu by a skilled software developer.

Maikumaru

SAS system is no facade. It works as how the factory intended it; to help turbo spool in a non destructive way. Is it a big difference, no not at all. It only injects air after the parameters are met. It is in the service manual. Yes it might be because of homolgation reasons, but I dont believe that...I am not sure how long the rocket as been around for imprezas, but that is not included on their production cars...

"factory als" is a myth. It would require the use of an aftermarket ECU (possible of course) or access to mitsubishi's software to write code or access code on our ecu's (impossible).

factory exhaust bits and turbo would no way be able to handle the amount heat generated to even hold the boost at 0 psi.

about the exhaust manifold inlet holes...that is just conjecture.

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

Well, turbo surge is inevitable; heres how I see its presence!

In my current state where I know the tiny manifold holes can only flow so much probably less than 5/8's of an inch cumulitive flow bewteen 4 ports I see surge because pressurizing the charge pipe happens at a relatively low shaft speed.

If I want more shaft speed I have to bleed more pressure aka boost leak. I can vent more of that in to the exhaust manifold, by coming up with a better runner design like DSPS and the WRC valve 4 runners, and or bleeding some of that through the motor. By default a boost leak would cause higher shaft speed at the surge limit.

as far as shaft speed measuring I need to wait til I get some more money, waiting for another big job on the base to kick off.

Talked to Jason Carberry aka carbibbles aka the sd grn rom for subies, and he said he has measured 4-5 psi manifold with -20 being the limit for the subies.

As far as maikumaru says sas helping I cant speak of and I dont want to until I see a scientifically measured version of my results.


I didnt think about it but my wastegate line is on a boost only reference where as I build charge pipe pressure it may be unsealing it slightly.

There is still a ton of variables but Im crackin away.

In the first page or second page of this thread claudiumxg states that a throttle kick was used to suppliment the sas, or visa versa

211Ratsbud

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I still need to establish positive control over this valve. Development of my Arduino project has been slowed down, with the wife in her 8th month of pregnancy this could get railroaded quickly.

Im also trying to search for IAC valves that I can use as a bypass and test the throttle bypass set up..

a TSS coms first though

foxbat

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I've been running anti lag (aftermarket ecu) on stock turbo & exhaust manifold for so many years now! The only part that can be destroyed is the catalytic converter
If SAS is not a facade then how can you explain all the zeros under 'air injection' in the stock rom? Mitsubishi installed sas but forgot to enable it in the software!! I'm not sure what the manual says, never seen it, a friend told me that the manual explains that sas is meant to cool down the turbo after long runs.

foxbat

Gr.n subies ALS is identical to how an aftermarket ecu work, subies have no sas. It uses -ve timing + ingi cut to achieve over 0 boost, it's aided by a throttle kick which help producing more exhaust gases. I can't see how a throttle kick would help sas pump more air! I'm guessing that Mitsubishi rally cars had both traditional ecu anti lag & SAS, I don't think that SAS was meant to produce any positive boost by itself. I think that traditional anti lag is possible on a stock ECU, we need an additional fuel table, ignition cut & possibly further retard limit.

Maikumaru

Let me see if I can post it up. Otherwise I will PM you. They did not forget, SAS has a use and is enabled.


I am sure your case is more of an exception than the rule...and i think a properly setup car is sweet. I think it is pretty safe to say that a full blown als system degrades materials on the exhaust side at an enhanced rate.

I have warped my own exhaust flanges from all the testing I have done as well. I had a beautiful pic of it but cant find it anymore...and this is just from -10 to -15 degrees in timing.

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

I think the SAS is capable of getting air in front of the throttle plate to be increased in pressure IE positive. i definitely believe that a throttle kick would actually help shaft speed increase in the same way a typical boost leak increases shaft speed for a given boost level.

the best situation would happen in SAS only providing enough airflow and bypass where its saturated and capable to supply the air to the hotside with the rich fuel mixture.

My solution to the issue is to use the wire that would typically control the SAS solenoid from the factory to enable a simple routine in the ARDUINO that would operate up to 2 solenoids, and ---- apply voltage to the alt fuel and timing map switch to get us the anti lag maps.

I dont know how the gr-n subie accomplishes ign cut? there's no parameter to control it on overrun. Is it for sure using cut and not just retard on overrun?

Cut could easily be handled by the same arduino to cancel a sequence of ign events.

I do know the grN subie rom is ignition retard limited at -20 for sure. The developer was trying to accomplish more.

-------------------------

Maikumaru

as requested

211Ratsbud

iTrader: (1)

I know I posted the link above to the moto iq article which featured the ford motors which run a SAS system that looks nearly identical to my set up.

I posted a few questions on moto iq and noone helped me out there yet.

My thought is for proper throttle response you need more than just SAS to put air before the throttle plate. You need to maintain at the very least a delta p that is less than normal overrun.