Buschur Racing-HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison
Oct 19, 2011, 11:14 AM
#1
Buschur Racing-HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison
In the never ending search I always seem to be on to find something better I ended up in some turbo testing this week.
My car for the basics runs:
BR2.3 RPM engine
BR Stage 3 head
BF272 cams
BR double pumper
ID2000 cc injectors
BR Race FMIC
BR upper and lower i/c pipes
BR Forward Facing V-band turbo kit
Tial wastegate and Tial BOV
E98 Fuel
I have been enjoying the hell out of my car all year with this combination. By far the best combination I've ever had in the car. I've only had it on "low" boost so far, max being 35 psi and that was during this testing trying to set boost when I made changes. The car is a beast and still has enough low end to manage to autocross it and do fairly well, I'd actually say the alignment/tire choices I have used for autocross is a bigger handicap than the power delivery which is pretty darn good.
OK, to the testing the three turbos used were:
Forced Performance HTA3586 with a Tial .82 turbine housing
Forced Performance HTA3082 with a Tial .63 turbine housing
Forced Performance HTA3076 with a Tial .63 turbine housing
Below is the dyno chart from the three turbos. I printed the sheet so each turbo has it's own color. Red=HTA3586, Green=HTA3082 and Blue=HTA3076
**I'd like to be able to do a nice spread sheet for all this, sorry, don't know how to do it.
More facts.
HTA3586, peak boost was 33.1 psi, at 8,000 rpm it had 32.7 psi. At 3,000/3.2 psi, 3,500/7.2 psi, 4,000/14.2 psi, 4500/28.3 psi, 5000/32.3 psi
HTA3082, peak boost was 32.7 psi, at 8,000 rpm it had 28.9 psi. At 3,000/4.8 psi, 3,500/11.2 psi, 4,000/23.5 psi, 4500/32.2 psi, 5000/31.9 psi
HTA3076, peak boost was 34.1 psi, at 8,000 rpm it had 27.3 psi. At 3,000/5.9
psi, 3,500/13.7 psi, 4,000/29.9 psi, 4500/33.1 psi, 5000/32.4 psi.
More information of interest.
This is RPM, then turbo, then TQ/HP
2500 rpm, HTA86, 115/57
2500 rpm, HTA82, 125/62
2500 rpm, HTA76, 125/62
3000 rpm, HTA86, 133/76
3000 rpm, HTA82, 144/82
3000 rpm, HTA76, 153/87
3500 rpm, HTA86, 181/120
3500 rpm, HTA82, 207/138
3500 rpm, HTA76, 233/155
4000 rpm, HTA86, 281/214
4000 rpm, HTA82, 342/260
4000 rpm, HTA76, 414/315
4500 rpm, HTA86, 456/390
4500 rpm, HTA82, 482/410
4500 rpm, HTA76, 520/440
5000 rpm, HTA86, 540/510
5000 rpm, HTA82, 516/486
5000 rpm, HTA76, 529/499
5500 rpm, HTA86, 546/567
5500 rpm, HTA82, 513/532
5500 rpm, HTA76, 522/542
8000 rpm, HTA86, 458/679
8000 rpm, HTA82, 389/579
8000 rpm, HTA76, 378/563
OK, those are the technical facts of the test. Some side notes. The boost was adjusted to get them equal. I went a little high and then a little low on the HTA3076, I figure for the test it was close enough. Each psi was giving me about 10 hp/ft lbs. So figure from there if you are unhappy with the 34 psi on the HTA3076. At 35 psi it made 577 peak. The AFR's were set at 12.0:1 across the board from 3000 rpm up for each one. I did have to pull a few degrees of timing through the mid range on the 3082/76, it didn't like the smaller turbine wheel with the timing I was running.
We are doing one more test today by Robert's request. The car is having an .82 turbine housing put on the HTA3076 right now. He feels the spool will not be effected and the power is going to climb.
In my opinion, based on what I am seeing the HTA3076 is a better match than the HTA3082, the low/mid range is great and the power up top is minimal that is being lost. Both turbos carry enough power all the way past 8,000 rpm that you could run the cars that high if need be and benefit. Shift points wouldn't need to be past about 7,000 rpm for the car to ET well but in 4th to cross the traps letting the engine rev would benefit it.
My car for the basics runs:
BR2.3 RPM engine
BR Stage 3 head
BF272 cams
BR double pumper
ID2000 cc injectors
BR Race FMIC
BR upper and lower i/c pipes
BR Forward Facing V-band turbo kit
Tial wastegate and Tial BOV
E98 Fuel
I have been enjoying the hell out of my car all year with this combination. By far the best combination I've ever had in the car. I've only had it on "low" boost so far, max being 35 psi and that was during this testing trying to set boost when I made changes. The car is a beast and still has enough low end to manage to autocross it and do fairly well, I'd actually say the alignment/tire choices I have used for autocross is a bigger handicap than the power delivery which is pretty darn good.
OK, to the testing the three turbos used were:
Forced Performance HTA3586 with a Tial .82 turbine housing
Forced Performance HTA3082 with a Tial .63 turbine housing
Forced Performance HTA3076 with a Tial .63 turbine housing
Below is the dyno chart from the three turbos. I printed the sheet so each turbo has it's own color. Red=HTA3586, Green=HTA3082 and Blue=HTA3076
**I'd like to be able to do a nice spread sheet for all this, sorry, don't know how to do it.
More facts.
HTA3586, peak boost was 33.1 psi, at 8,000 rpm it had 32.7 psi. At 3,000/3.2 psi, 3,500/7.2 psi, 4,000/14.2 psi, 4500/28.3 psi, 5000/32.3 psi
HTA3082, peak boost was 32.7 psi, at 8,000 rpm it had 28.9 psi. At 3,000/4.8 psi, 3,500/11.2 psi, 4,000/23.5 psi, 4500/32.2 psi, 5000/31.9 psi
HTA3076, peak boost was 34.1 psi, at 8,000 rpm it had 27.3 psi. At 3,000/5.9
psi, 3,500/13.7 psi, 4,000/29.9 psi, 4500/33.1 psi, 5000/32.4 psi.
More information of interest.
This is RPM, then turbo, then TQ/HP
2500 rpm, HTA86, 115/57
2500 rpm, HTA82, 125/62
2500 rpm, HTA76, 125/62
3000 rpm, HTA86, 133/76
3000 rpm, HTA82, 144/82
3000 rpm, HTA76, 153/87
3500 rpm, HTA86, 181/120
3500 rpm, HTA82, 207/138
3500 rpm, HTA76, 233/155
4000 rpm, HTA86, 281/214
4000 rpm, HTA82, 342/260
4000 rpm, HTA76, 414/315
4500 rpm, HTA86, 456/390
4500 rpm, HTA82, 482/410
4500 rpm, HTA76, 520/440
5000 rpm, HTA86, 540/510
5000 rpm, HTA82, 516/486
5000 rpm, HTA76, 529/499
5500 rpm, HTA86, 546/567
5500 rpm, HTA82, 513/532
5500 rpm, HTA76, 522/542
8000 rpm, HTA86, 458/679
8000 rpm, HTA82, 389/579
8000 rpm, HTA76, 378/563
OK, those are the technical facts of the test. Some side notes. The boost was adjusted to get them equal. I went a little high and then a little low on the HTA3076, I figure for the test it was close enough. Each psi was giving me about 10 hp/ft lbs. So figure from there if you are unhappy with the 34 psi on the HTA3076. At 35 psi it made 577 peak. The AFR's were set at 12.0:1 across the board from 3000 rpm up for each one. I did have to pull a few degrees of timing through the mid range on the 3082/76, it didn't like the smaller turbine wheel with the timing I was running.
We are doing one more test today by Robert's request. The car is having an .82 turbine housing put on the HTA3076 right now. He feels the spool will not be effected and the power is going to climb.
In my opinion, based on what I am seeing the HTA3076 is a better match than the HTA3082, the low/mid range is great and the power up top is minimal that is being lost. Both turbos carry enough power all the way past 8,000 rpm that you could run the cars that high if need be and benefit. Shift points wouldn't need to be past about 7,000 rpm for the car to ET well but in 4th to cross the traps letting the engine rev would benefit it.
Oct 19, 2011, 11:25 AM
#2
Evolved Member
This is one of those rare times that I'm not sure the smaller faster spooling turbo is worth it... the power under the curve with the HTA 3586 and huge increase in peak is just so good. It spools fast enough to be totally usable for anything other than maybe autox and the peak power is ludicrous even on low boost.
Oct 19, 2011, 11:26 AM
#3
Also, for reference. This all started over the EFR thread posted elsewhere, the search was to find a turbo that could match the EFR. This HTA3076 is a bad little dude, it is running more boost than the EFR was, I think it was at just short of 30 psi. The spool up is also not quite as quick as the EFR. I think a better comparison will come when the EFR turbo gets put on a Dynojet and I think that is scheduled to happen tomorrow. I am going to request the EFR to be run at 33-34 psi to try and get the comparison as close as possible.
Oct 19, 2011, 11:34 AM
#5
The HTA3586 is one bad dude and it's my favorite only from doing so many turbo tests over the years. This car has over 1,000 dyno runs on it.
The HTA3076 has a huge increase in low end power though. For someone looking for a responsive yet powerful T3 option I have to say that turbo is the ticket. I mean at 4,000 rpm the HTA3076 makes 133 additional ft lbs of torque and 101 whp over the HTA3586. For a car you drive and still want to run fast, that is substantial. This HTA3076 is actually going to find a home on my '32 Ford I built with the EVO engine in it. I have a super low mileage HTA3586 for sale
The HTA3076 has a huge increase in low end power though. For someone looking for a responsive yet powerful T3 option I have to say that turbo is the ticket. I mean at 4,000 rpm the HTA3076 makes 133 additional ft lbs of torque and 101 whp over the HTA3586. For a car you drive and still want to run fast, that is substantial. This HTA3076 is actually going to find a home on my '32 Ford I built with the EVO engine in it. I have a super low mileage HTA3586 for sale
Oct 19, 2011, 11:35 AM
#6
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Also, for reference. This all started over the EFR thread posted elsewhere, the search was to find a turbo that could match the EFR. This HTA3076 is a bad little dude, it is running more boost than the EFR was, I think it was at just short of 30 psi. The spool up is also not quite as quick as the EFR. I think a better comparison will come when the EFR turbo gets put on a Dynojet and I think that is scheduled to happen tomorrow. I am going to request the EFR to be run at 33-34 psi to try and get the comparison as close as possible.
The car with the EFR is R/Ternie's car?
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Oct 19, 2011, 12:08 PM
#9
David,
If i remember correctly, didn't you auto X with your 3586? The 2.3 must have helped to spool quick enough to use the power, but the 3076 looks to be more suited for the application and 3586 for top speed pulls, drag for those who will high rev. Thanks for testing
If i remember correctly, didn't you auto X with your 3586? The 2.3 must have helped to spool quick enough to use the power, but the 3076 looks to be more suited for the application and 3586 for top speed pulls, drag for those who will high rev. Thanks for testing
Oct 19, 2011, 12:27 PM
#11
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Very nice comparison. The difference in spool judging by the chart would make me go with a 3586 any day, but the real test for me would be driving both setups around town to really see which one you like more.
Oct 19, 2011, 01:35 PM
#14
Well I typed a long post and our internet did me in, I'm not typing it all again!
The .82 housing had very little effect on the spool up, Robert was right and about the same effect on top end. It seems the turbo didn't care much either way. I found the same thing with the HTA86.
At 35.5 psi of boost the car made 576 whp and 547 ft lbs (off the top of my head, I am home now). I layed that graph over Curt Brown's FP Red graph, he holds the record on our dyno for an FP Red. His car had a peak boost of 36.2 psi. The HTA3076 is virtually identical with more power in the mid range.
I'd highly recommend this HTA3076 for someone wanting to go with a responsive T3 set up that could be autocrossed and still run in the 9's in a well prepped EVO.
It's going on my street rod for sure.
The .82 housing had very little effect on the spool up, Robert was right and about the same effect on top end. It seems the turbo didn't care much either way. I found the same thing with the HTA86.
At 35.5 psi of boost the car made 576 whp and 547 ft lbs (off the top of my head, I am home now). I layed that graph over Curt Brown's FP Red graph, he holds the record on our dyno for an FP Red. His car had a peak boost of 36.2 psi. The HTA3076 is virtually identical with more power in the mid range.
I'd highly recommend this HTA3076 for someone wanting to go with a responsive T3 set up that could be autocrossed and still run in the 9's in a well prepped EVO.
It's going on my street rod for sure.