Sheet metal screws? Huh? The Wicked CAS boxes I purchased mounted in factory holes as well.

I have used quote a few boxes as well, and I am more than happy with my purchase. but even if the AI box sounded amazing, it still can't handle the power I am looking at. I am currently at 600W through my dual 10" speakers, and may go up to over 1000W in the near future... the AI box cannot handle that. It just doesn't have the volume.

 

I guess it depends on what you are going for, but I ran two 12 in JLAudio's with 1000w to each sub in an enclosure that was only 1 cu/ft air space, before the sub went in. It hit 162 db at the IASCA db Sound Off. So, yes, you can run large subs in a small enclosure. I even think I still have a picture of that exact setup if you want to see it, along with the sound sheet. There is a lot more to sound, then just the volume of the box. Though it can be said a box can make or break your setup pretty easily. Besides, if you want to know for sure if it would have worked all you would have had to do is look at this setup:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=286896

But that wouldn't have solved your dual sub issue that you wanted to address. Man, two 12's, those were the good ol days, but I do miss my hearing

You planning on entering any competitions with your setup? Whats your overall sound quality like?

I apologize about the sheet metal screws. This was somewhat of a long read, and I had lost the context in which you used the Sheet metal screws earlier. Looking back I see they were used for the Amp rack, not the sub enclosure. Sorry 'bout that.

 

No competitions, I am an audiophile, and I travel long distances in my car. My sound quality so far is amazing, I'm waiting on my microphone for my RTA as there is this flat spot in my midrange area that I can't seem to tune out by ear.

I don't listen to techno, rap or hip-hop, but I listen to DVD Audios in 5.1 surround sound, and one of my favorites is Blue Man Group-Complex which is heavy in percusion.

as for DB, you can get DB out of a sub with any volume behind the cone, but you don't get the best response from the speaker with lower than recomended volumes, you have too little air support behind the cones.

It's too early for me to be technical, I just woke up and in alot of pain from a sprained ankle.

I have been by no means bashing audio integration's product. With the right sub, I am sure it sounds beautiful. But the compromises I would have to make to use it doesn't make it an option for me.

Sheet metal screws.... I still don't think I used any... wait, I did use two, to mount my ANL fuse holder in the engine bay. All of my amps and audio components are mounted to my 1/4" plywood amp rack with stainless steel machine screws and T-nuts. The amp rack is mounted to the car with structural adhesive.

 

It isn't likely that a pair of 12's is going to hit 162 db is if you smack the microphone int the cone while making the measurement. It would be hard to do with a huge ported box. Maybe someone was playing with the calibration settings on the RTA or the mic was abused and out of calibration.

 

Is your midrange mounted in the door? It is very common for there to be cancellations due to reflections inside the door and damping has little to no effect. I've seen systems with over 9db of cancellation in the 200-500hz range
and no matter how much increase the amplitude you just increase the cancellation. It is a straight path length issue from the rear wave. Deflex padding helps, coating the door behind the speaker and the speaker basket itself (not the open areas) does help. Deflex padding doesn't stick well so get some good glue to adhere it.

If you haven't already you should also play with different midrange phase combinations. It is almost impossible for door mounted speakers to be in phase with each other at the drivers listening position. Equalization affects phase too so make sure teh system is flat when you compare changes. Proper phasing will give a focused center image even if it isn't perfectly placed.

 

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the input.

I've been playing with the phase settings, and I have them just about where I want them, and I am actually in the process of deadening the doors.. But to be honest I didn't think about the rear wave on the doors, but I bet you are right. When I am in the doors I will add deflex padding along with the other deadening materials.

As for adhesives, I have always had good results with 3M's spray adhesive.

 

An easy test is too see how this changes when the window is open or closed. While in the driveway, listen to a track that keys on midrange with the windows closed. when you open the window you should increase (approximately double) the distance the wave travels before it reflects back to the speaker. This longer pathlength should move the response "issue" down an octave or so.

Car audio would be so much better if there wasn't so much glass involved...

 

Bill,

Thank you.... you are 100% correct! I rarely drive with my windows down, but I have noticed that phenomenon.

What Deflex padding do you recomend? I've never needed to use it on the cars I have owned prior.

 

Deflex pads are used mostly in home and studio monitors. thats why I made the adhesion comment. They ore a soft rubbery substance with concentric circles to disperse reflected waves. I think Select Products or AAMP of America carry them.

Also try to reinforce the mounting surface as much as possible. any resonance in the panel will affect driver output in this range too. We always tried to get at least a 3/4" baffle for mids whether inside, outside or a combination. I have 5/16" steel baffles now in my kick panels drilled and tapped so my speakers can bolt in. I get linear output down to 58Hz according to my IASYS.

 

Not only is it LIKELY to be able to do this, but has so several times. In fact, the current record for a SINGLE sub is 185.5db. Even more interesting is the record for a single 10in sub with 1000w is 145db. If you understand the math behind db then you would clearly understand that a single twelve has the potential for much more then 162db.

 

Lets put it this way this post was meant to show the setup he was going with there is no need for anyone to bash a company or to bash his work. I am an MECP First class installer, for a nice clean look without going to crazy the job was done nice. Audio Integrations has some good quality products and has the characteristics and air space measured and setup for each application. So in my opinion I really feel that people should have just said good job and just ask about the install rather then bashing his work and making him talk badly about a company. GOOD JOB! I would however never put that much weight in my evo! lol and in my opinion not really into the big bass anymore atleast around here I would have thrown a 10 inch sub, 4 channel amp components in the front place the new tweeter in the factory spot and you would never even know there was a true component system in the car(accept for the sound quality. IF anyone really want a nice clean compact setup in their car I would suggest looking into Infinity Bass Link 2 system it is a 250watt powered subwoofer and the optional slide in 4 channel amp all in one compact space in the trunk! I have installed a few of these setups including just the 200watt Bass Link 1 system in an RS Evo and its bumps. If anyone has any questions let me know!

 

I don't want to go too off topic but trust me I understand the math. If you understood the physics you would agree with me. If a single 10 can hit 145db, doubling cone area should yeild a 3db increase if all alse is equal. Since a 12 has roughly 50% more cone area than a 10 it is reasonable to assume that you would get a 1.5db increase by increasing the woofer size. And of course, as you reach the maximum pressure potential these increases become harder and harder to acheive. These are real world numbers that can be duplicated in install bays all over the world. I have friends at Audio Control and if you would like I can arrange a test of your system using calibrated equipment and proper measurement techniques.

I really want to know what organization has these records and how they are measured. Are these SPL vehicles that have 1/5th of the interior volume with huge vented boxes? Is it an outlaw class where you can put the mic inside the port? I know for sure they aren't real world, install a system to play music in my performance car situations.

Or maybe some peoples SPL meters read like some peoles dyno's...extremely optomistic to impress the customer.

 

tempe, it looks great man, in fact i think you have swayed my decision as to what boxes to get, but a few questions though... what amps are you running? and what JL series is that? also, where did you have the wires that go to the subs come out at, i looked at the picture on there site, and i didn't see anything built in. and of course, more pictures are always welcome.

 

cochrand, thank you.

I am running 3 Alpine Amps, one for my surrounds, one for my center channel and bass shakers, and one for my subs. for my subs I am running MRP M650 600W Mono amp.

The subs I am running are JL 10W3V2 2 ohm models. These are dual driver subs which I have wired in series-parallel sequence to get a 2 ohm load on the amp.

The wires run from the amplifier to a hollow channel in the front/top of the trunk to both sides, from there they go behind the trim and into a hollow void between the sheet metal to line the trunk and the rear quarter pannel. They then go back to where the little access pannels are in the back of the trunk.

The subwoofer boxes have standard quick disconnect wire terminals on the back side, and on the inside soldered wire that runs to your sub.

If I were to do it over, I would go with 12W3V2 D2 12" subs with the dual 12" boxes. The Subs have the same power handleing capability, but they move a bit more air. Also I wouldn't have had to fill the boxes with foam to reduce the volume as these boxes are the EXACT size for the 12W3V2s. Not to mention the visual appeal of dual 12s in the trunk.

 

nice, i have two JL 10w3v3's and two alpine amps, a pdx 1.600, and a pdx 4.100 sitting on my floor right now, trying to figure out what to do with it.