Atp And Ams
Originally Posted by evotomig
ATP= smaller exh. housing to mate to stock exh. manifold, which results in slower spoolup and chokes top end power. Does not include lower intercooler piping which is standard w/ AMS kit.
AMS= tops in fit and finish (everything fits and looks right), awesome performance w/ relatively little lag up front and no lag whatsoever between shifts.
As I've said before, you get what you pay for. Is the AMS worth the extra $$$.
To me it was.
AMS= tops in fit and finish (everything fits and looks right), awesome performance w/ relatively little lag up front and no lag whatsoever between shifts.
As I've said before, you get what you pay for. Is the AMS worth the extra $$$.
To me it was.
Originally Posted by MR
Hi fre,
50 recirculate back & 50 VTA is bad? I dun get it? Why is it bad for the evo?
If you are running MAP than full VTA will not be a issue..
50 recirculate back & 50 VTA is bad? I dun get it? Why is it bad for the evo?
If you are running MAP than full VTA will not be a issue..
Originally Posted by Derek888
Whats your whp on pump gas? Before you purchased your AMS kit have considered the RNR kit as well?
Originally Posted by alex_alex
No, his numbers WITH supporting mods would be in the ballpark of other turbokids WITHOUT the supporting mods, if he's lucky.
Look, i dont think a lot of the shops that used to carry the atp turbo's feel like burning any bridges by talking bad about them on a forum.
Call some of them up and ask them what they think of those turbos, and ask them why they got rid of them.
Look, i dont think a lot of the shops that used to carry the atp turbo's feel like burning any bridges by talking bad about them on a forum.
Call some of them up and ask them what they think of those turbos, and ask them why they got rid of them.
.. Alex Alex... Like always Alex tries to type and give an opinion as a fact when his knowledge is very limited as proven over and over. Alex let me tell you that you are WRONG. This dyno chart that you posted was with my STOCK cat, stock manifold and no engine work at all( no cams) I made more power and I still make more power than you until this moment now after spending $2400 on a turbo kit $450 on injectors and pump and $895 on Xede. I spent way less money than you did and I still make more power with my so little mods. First of all after my cat was removed I dynoed @ 350WHP on a dynojet with crappy 91 gas. As many saw my full boost hits around 3700~3800 RPM and keep going until 7600RPM like a rock holding @ 22PSI which your baby 16G will dream of. My race map basically SUX because it's not a race map its 97~98 map and smogi was even their and he said it himself (only 97). Every octane you add you gain around 2WHP so on C16 with no mods I will see around 390WHP on dyno jet which is over 340on Shiv dyno (which you will never reach). I do truly believe that ATP housing is rubbing a bit of power (around 10WHP) but I think $2000 difference is well worth the loss. My friend made 395WHP on dyno jet with ATP 3071 with NO mods at all not even a manifold or cams. His run was on 110 octane. Alex the truth is you state your opinion as a fact when you have no experience and knowledge about the product. Please leave the answer to people who have the kits. I like the AMS kit and I think it's great but I could not see myself spending $1500 for 10WHP more plus ATP is a stealth kit and it fits a stock manifold which no kit on the market offer until now.
Also we guarantee the manifold for life because we know it will ever crack. We have never had one crack going on 2+ years and more manifolds DSM/EVO than I can count. We have the highest quality stuff at great prices. Just metioned this because a couple mentioned our kit.
I don't want to start a big war, but the reason people don't spool well or make great top end power with the ATP is because of the restrictive turbine housing. The stock manifold isn't a huge restriction, but of course a proper header will help with spool and power throughout.
I don't want to start a big war, but the reason people don't spool well or make great top end power with the ATP is because of the restrictive turbine housing. The stock manifold isn't a huge restriction, but of course a proper header will help with spool and power throughout.
Originally Posted by RnR Racing
I don't want to start a big war, but the reason people don't spool well or make great top end power with the ATP is because of the restrictive turbine housing. The stock manifold isn't a huge restriction, but of course a proper header will help with spool and power throughout.
You are not starting a war at all but what you are saying is a rumer. Do you have anything to back up what you are saying??? I have a dyno sheet with 110 gas making 395 WHP with no mods what do you have??
the truth is and I have seen it through pm's that ATP kit is the most kit sold out there hands down.
Originally Posted by Az3ar
You are not starting a war at all but what you are saying is a rumer. Do you have anything to back up what you are saying??? I have a dyno sheet with 110 gas making 395 WHP with no mods what do you have??
the truth is and I have seen it through pm's that ATP kit is the most kit sold out there hands down.
the truth is and I have seen it through pm's that ATP kit is the most kit sold out there hands down.
First, Az3ar questions Vishnu's judgment about the turbo, now he's questioning RNR's. give it up big guy. everyone's still proud that you had the first atp turbo!
Originally Posted by Az3ar
.. Alex Alex... Like always Alex tries to type and give an opinion as a fact when his knowledge is very limited as proven over and over. Alex let me tell you that you are WRONG. This dyno chart that you posted was with my STOCK cat, stock manifold and no engine work at all( no cams) I made more power and I still make more power than you until this moment now after spending $2400 on a turbo kit $450 on injectors and pump and $895 on Xede. I spent way less money than you did and I still make more power with my so little mods. First of all after my cat was removed I dynoed @ 350WHP on a dynojet with crappy 91 gas. As many saw my full boost hits around 3700~3800 RPM and keep going until 7600RPM like a rock holding @ 22PSI which your baby 16G will dream of. My race map basically SUX because it's not a race map its 97~98 map and smogi was even their and he said it himself (only 97). Every octane you add you gain around 2WHP so on C16 with no mods I will see around 390WHP on dyno jet which is over 340on Shiv dyno (which you will never reach). I do truly believe that ATP housing is rubbing a bit of power (around 10WHP) but I think $2000 difference is well worth the loss. My friend made 395WHP on dyno jet with ATP 3071 with NO mods at all not even a manifold or cams. His run was on 110 octane. Alex the truth is you state your opinion as a fact when you have no experience and knowledge about the product. Please leave the answer to people who have the kits. I like the AMS kit and I think it's great but I could not see myself spending $1500 for 10WHP more plus ATP is a stealth kit and it fits a stock manifold which no kit on the market offer until now.
1) you're lying to yourself if you think you've spent less money. Im still running stock injectors, my cams and cam gears cost $850, and my 10.5 housing cost $230. That adds up to 1080. Your turbo and injectors cost more than that. BUT, i can see pretty easily from your Vishnu dyno chart that you're making a teeny bit more power than a stock turbo car. But if you plot your graph over a stage 1+ graph, the ATP loses a LOT of area under the power curve. laaaaaaaaaag.
2) you're lying to yourself if you think the ATP is robbing only 10 hp from the ATP or RNR kit.
3) stop talking about your friend. Lets talk about YOU, and that new dynosheet your posted, which is quite meaningless without knowing the settings, the surrounding conditions, stock baseline on that particular dyno, etc. you should know that by know. but then again, theres a LOT of things you should've known by now.
4) BOTTOM LINE: ive said this before, lets stop the internet racing, and lets see some times. At the track, at the drag strip, whatever. Stop repeatedly asserting your hypothetical superiority over the stock 16g.
5) FYI: the stock 16 g with the $230 hotside upgrade holds 22 psi EASILY, all the way to 7600. Easily.
Last edited by alex_alex; Dec 11, 2004 at 01:31 AM.
Originally Posted by alex_alex
This whole, "you being completely wrong" thing is getting tiresome.
1) you're lying to yourself if you think you've spent less money. Im still running stock injectors, my cams and cam gears cost $850, and my 10.5 housing cost $230. That adds up to 1080. Your turbo and injectors cost more than that. BUT, i can see pretty easily from your Vishnu dyno chart that you're making a teeny bit more power than a stock turbo car. But if you plot your graph over a stage 1+ graph, the ATP loses a LOT of area under the power curve. laaaaaaaaaag.
2) you're lying to yourself if you think the ATP is robbing only 10 hp from the ATP or RNR kit.
3) stop talking about your friend. Lets talk about YOU, and that new dynosheet your posted, which is quite meaningless without knowing the settings, the surrounding conditions, stock baseline on that particular dyno, etc. you should know that by know. but then again, theres a LOT of things you should've known by now.
4) BOTTOM LINE: ive said this before, lets stop the internet racing, and lets see some times. At the track, at the drag strip, whatever. Stop repeatedly asserting your hypothetical superiority over the stock 16g.
5) FYI: the stock 16 g with the $230 hotside upgrade holds 22 psi EASILY, all the way to 7600. Easily.
1) you're lying to yourself if you think you've spent less money. Im still running stock injectors, my cams and cam gears cost $850, and my 10.5 housing cost $230. That adds up to 1080. Your turbo and injectors cost more than that. BUT, i can see pretty easily from your Vishnu dyno chart that you're making a teeny bit more power than a stock turbo car. But if you plot your graph over a stage 1+ graph, the ATP loses a LOT of area under the power curve. laaaaaaaaaag.
2) you're lying to yourself if you think the ATP is robbing only 10 hp from the ATP or RNR kit.
3) stop talking about your friend. Lets talk about YOU, and that new dynosheet your posted, which is quite meaningless without knowing the settings, the surrounding conditions, stock baseline on that particular dyno, etc. you should know that by know. but then again, theres a LOT of things you should've known by now.
4) BOTTOM LINE: ive said this before, lets stop the internet racing, and lets see some times. At the track, at the drag strip, whatever. Stop repeatedly asserting your hypothetical superiority over the stock 16g.
5) FYI: the stock 16 g with the $230 hotside upgrade holds 22 psi EASILY, all the way to 7600. Easily.
Just to follow Alex Alex gay way to point things out
1- your cams require installation which your knowledge is so limited and that means some one performed the installation for you and that’s at least $300 labor. On top all that stage 1+ requires TB exhaust that I am sure you have (that’s another 1K). Misleading people again what about Xede $895. So far we are over the budget.
2- bring me any other dynosheet from a dyno jet with any other turbo kit on a stock EVO no cams, no engine work and no supporting modes making 350WHP on 91 gas and making 395 on race gas (I have dyno chart you have $hit)
3- let’s talk about me. My race map is not even a race map because it's tuned on 97~98 gas so I am sorry but STFU about this.
4- I will be going to the track once they are open all next year for sure. Do you have any track numbers yourself?
Stock 3071 holds 27 psi until 7600 on race gas easy
how about you guy go to a dragstrip and get some #'s. That's the biggest most comparable thing between cars. 1/4 mile MPH is the best way to judge acceleration of car. That's what's your trying to improve.
If these ATP turbo makes a big mph at the dragstrip compared to a stock turbo car...then everyone will slack off these ATP vs XXX kit threads.
I just went to the dyno on wed with the br440 and put down 350hp.330tq. That's less power than most 115mph evo's make on this dyno as stated by the guys that run the shop. My tune was messed up becuase of temp factors and conditions on the dyno different than in the real world outisde. Im going to Atco dragstrip tommorrow to make some runs..Im hoping for 118-120mph. (yeah 350whp..whatever)
The dragstrip and street is the be-all end -all of engine/drivetrain performance. The ultimate measuring tape. We don't run the cars on the dyno, we run them on pavement.
If these ATP turbo makes a big mph at the dragstrip compared to a stock turbo car...then everyone will slack off these ATP vs XXX kit threads.
I just went to the dyno on wed with the br440 and put down 350hp.330tq. That's less power than most 115mph evo's make on this dyno as stated by the guys that run the shop. My tune was messed up becuase of temp factors and conditions on the dyno different than in the real world outisde. Im going to Atco dragstrip tommorrow to make some runs..Im hoping for 118-120mph. (yeah 350whp..whatever)
The dragstrip and street is the be-all end -all of engine/drivetrain performance. The ultimate measuring tape. We don't run the cars on the dyno, we run them on pavement.
Last edited by DSMotorsport; Dec 11, 2004 at 07:51 AM.
I have to chime in for ATP. They are primarily Euro tuners. I have tuned my cars on their dyno, and they are great guys.
I have seen their parts, and they are top notch. Stop bashing ATP. ATP and AMS both make great parts.
Enough said! Lest stop the madness!
I have seen their parts, and they are top notch. Stop bashing ATP. ATP and AMS both make great parts.
Enough said! Lest stop the madness!
Originally Posted by DSMotorsport
how about you guy go to a dragstrip and get some #'s. That's the biggest most comparable thing between cars. 1/4 mile MPH is the best way to judge acceleration of car. That's what's your trying to improve.
If these ATP turbo makes a big mph at the dragstrip compared to a stock turbo car...then everyone will slack off these ATP vs XXX kit threads.
I just went to the dyno on wed with the br440 and put down 350hp.330tq. That's less power than most 115mph evo's make on this dyno as stated by the guys that run the shop. My tune was messed up becuase of temp factors and conditions on the dyno different than in the real world outisde. Im going to Atco dragstrip tommorrow to make some runs..Im hoping for 118-120mph. (yeah 350whp..whatever)
The dragstrip and street is the be-all end -all of engine/drivetrain performance. The ultimate measuring tape. We don't run the cars on the dyno, we run them on pavement.
If these ATP turbo makes a big mph at the dragstrip compared to a stock turbo car...then everyone will slack off these ATP vs XXX kit threads.
I just went to the dyno on wed with the br440 and put down 350hp.330tq. That's less power than most 115mph evo's make on this dyno as stated by the guys that run the shop. My tune was messed up becuase of temp factors and conditions on the dyno different than in the real world outisde. Im going to Atco dragstrip tommorrow to make some runs..Im hoping for 118-120mph. (yeah 350whp..whatever)
The dragstrip and street is the be-all end -all of engine/drivetrain performance. The ultimate measuring tape. We don't run the cars on the dyno, we run them on pavement.
I would be willing to put our turbo kit in a 1/4 mile challenge against any turbo kit out there using a comparable turbo on a comparable car. I am certain the differnce would be higher then most of you think.
other then that.....as was stated earlier....take it to the track!
Eric
other then that.....as was stated earlier....take it to the track!
Eric
Evolving Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Germany
I wonder how the quick spooling kits would perform and show reliability on the track
(no 1/4). I mean racetrack. I am reading a lot and talk to people but no one is
sure up to now which kits would perform well for longer periods of time at moderate boost
levels but full throttle.
To AMS and ATP: do you have customers running your kits for some time on regular race tracks?
That's my question and the question of a lot of Evo drivers in my region.
Thanks
(no 1/4). I mean racetrack. I am reading a lot and talk to people but no one is
sure up to now which kits would perform well for longer periods of time at moderate boost
levels but full throttle.
To AMS and ATP: do you have customers running your kits for some time on regular race tracks?
That's my question and the question of a lot of Evo drivers in my region.
Thanks
I will take my car to the track right when they open... on race gas I will brake in the 11's for sure.
here is my dyno chart with no cat on 91 gas. Race gas makes these turbos shine so I am looking at another 40WHP on race C16 and that will put me in the 390s WHP on dynojet.
oh let Alex tell me where is the lag??
here is my dyno chart with no cat on 91 gas. Race gas makes these turbos shine so I am looking at another 40WHP on race C16 and that will put me in the 390s WHP on dynojet.
oh let Alex tell me where is the lag??