Flashed White Rabbits: Please post your numbers Here!!
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 150
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From: south colton
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
That wasn't my point. I went ahead and ordered because I put faith (stupidly) in FP's work and Switzer's dyno numbers. I read the entire thread. Im talking the 373whp on pump gas number here, I dont give a crap about race gas numbers, however, my main point was dont you think this is horribly misleading?
FP CLAIMS it will hold boost - MOST people here are claiming it doesnt hold boost at all! I think thats qualified as false advertising dont you. Also, I know different dyno=different numbers, but they are in the same ballpark. Its easy to see the numbers provided early on are obviously WAYYYYY different than what is being shown now... I cant see how you can disagree there.
Funny both Switzer and FP havent responded to any threads yet.
Something is not adding up. Remember, this last car tested had AEM just like car that made 440awhp. It also had HKS 272 cams, yet made 35 LESS whp? Comeon...
Do you think its OK a vendor is selling a turbo for $1550 that makes 5whp more than the stock turbo? Right from FP's sight. "Some instances realized a 70+whp increase at 7000rpm compared to the stock turbo" Ummm where? 70!!!!! How bout 5? This was on race gas at high boost too!!!!!!!!
FP CLAIMS it will hold boost - MOST people here are claiming it doesnt hold boost at all! I think thats qualified as false advertising dont you. Also, I know different dyno=different numbers, but they are in the same ballpark. Its easy to see the numbers provided early on are obviously WAYYYYY different than what is being shown now... I cant see how you can disagree there.
Funny both Switzer and FP havent responded to any threads yet.
Something is not adding up. Remember, this last car tested had AEM just like car that made 440awhp. It also had HKS 272 cams, yet made 35 LESS whp? Comeon...Do you think its OK a vendor is selling a turbo for $1550 that makes 5whp more than the stock turbo? Right from FP's sight. "Some instances realized a 70+whp increase at 7000rpm compared to the stock turbo" Ummm where? 70!!!!! How bout 5? This was on race gas at high boost too!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by joeycoates
Not a lot of tq gain, but look at the area under the curve.....not to mention 30 whp peak and a steady rise from 5k on. A bit more like I expected.
l8r)
Hmmm....now that is something to be considered....
I'm here at the TT SHive tune, and there's talk that maybe the factory boost solenoid doesn't like holding boost, so the were going to swap a MBC on to see if that changed things. THey didn't end up doing it (the guy had to leave) but that is something to consider.
I think that it was MalibuJack who was playing with a GM piece? And Tony is using the Power FC, does it utilise the factory boost control solenoid? They might be on to something here.....
The only thing id that some of the AEM EMS cars were not seeing a gain, do they use the factory solenoid?
I'm here at the TT SHive tune, and there's talk that maybe the factory boost solenoid doesn't like holding boost, so the were going to swap a MBC on to see if that changed things. THey didn't end up doing it (the guy had to leave) but that is something to consider.
I think that it was MalibuJack who was playing with a GM piece? And Tony is using the Power FC, does it utilise the factory boost control solenoid? They might be on to something here.....
The only thing id that some of the AEM EMS cars were not seeing a gain, do they use the factory solenoid?
I have thought about that as well, but your GT3076 is a different animal, it may be using a wastegate that does not require the same amount of pressure to keep it closed. Basically the stock solenoid might not be capable of exerting enough pressure on the stock WG actuator to keep the WG from opening at high boost, the ECU is trying to tell the actuator to keep it closed, but it does not have the mechanical strength to do so. There are too many reasons to list as to why this may be, but I just went and read a thread that MalibuJack wrote which in essence said that he has been able to maintain a higher boost level on his stock turbo be utilising the GM boost solenoid which I guess allows more pressure to the WG actuator thus keeping it closed. I think that ha said the GM solenoid can be had for $30 and he has a way to install with no splicing. I have already requested instructions on how to integrate, for $30-$50 it could not hurt....
Also MalibuJack is currently using the 2005 10.5 hotside which supposedly flows better the the older 10.5's and 9.8's, possibly due to more surface area to flow through. Would more surface area also mean that the WG actuator has a harder time keeping it closed as ther is more to push against? The WR uses the 05 10.5 hotside.....
Also MalibuJack is currently using the 2005 10.5 hotside which supposedly flows better the the older 10.5's and 9.8's, possibly due to more surface area to flow through. Would more surface area also mean that the WG actuator has a harder time keeping it closed as ther is more to push against? The WR uses the 05 10.5 hotside.....
Last edited by USP45; Jul 16, 2005 at 09:56 PM.
The same car (280s, no cat, WR) made 359whp/317torque on unleaded race gas in 103 degree weather. Shiv, after test driving it, said he does like the way the WR turbo holds boost at higher rpms compared to stock. No one around TT was saying it isn't a good turbo. There was some speculation on how to get it to make more power: was the MR blow off valve up to the task, would a manual boost controller work better, and was the weather just too damn hot. When I left, everyone was commenting on how the weather seemed to be cooling down, then, when we look at the dyno temp readings, it still said 97 degrees at 930pm.
Last edited by Smogrunner; Jul 17, 2005 at 08:54 AM.
Originally Posted by joeycoates
I have thought about that as well, but your GT3076 is a different animal, it may be using a wastegate that does not require the same amount of pressure to keep it closed. Basically the stock solenoid might not be capable of exerting enough pressure on the stock WG actuator to keep the WG from opening at high boost, the ECU is trying to tell the actuator to keep it closed, but it does not have the mechanical strength to do so. There are too many reasons to list as to why this may be, but I just went and read a thread that MalibuJack wrote which in essence said that he has been able to maintain a higher boost level on his stock turbo be utilising the GM boost solenoid which I guess allows more pressure to the WG actuator thus keeping it closed. I think that ha said the GM solenoid can be had for $30 and he has a way to install with no splicing. I have already requested instructions on how to integrate, for $30-$50 it could not hurt....
Also MalibuJack is currently using the 2005 10.5 hotside which supposedly flows better the the older 10.5's and 9.8's, possibly due to more surface area to flow through. Would more surface area also mean that the WG actuator has a harder time keeping it closed as ther is more to push against? The WR uses the 05 10.5 hotside.....
Also MalibuJack is currently using the 2005 10.5 hotside which supposedly flows better the the older 10.5's and 9.8's, possibly due to more surface area to flow through. Would more surface area also mean that the WG actuator has a harder time keeping it closed as ther is more to push against? The WR uses the 05 10.5 hotside.....
What it does is bleed off air that is comming from the turbo discharge to the factory wastegate
Its not that it is weak - its that it can't put any pressure on the closing of the actuator - it can only close and put pressure to open the actuataor - if that makes any sesne
A MBC is the perfect solution
Another angle is an adjustable wastagate arm actuator which can be set to hold the wastegate closed stronger - forge makes one
Last edited by DynoFlash; Jul 16, 2005 at 10:16 PM.
Here is what I don't get about this turbo. It is not a big departure from the stock turbo so if it can flow more air then should it not be making power automatically. At the same pressure it should heat the air less and it is said to be able to hold more pressure up top. IF these two things alone were true then the same car on pump gas should make more power. So far, all the tuners that have tested this turbo have not realized this instant improvement. All things being equal, if you put this turbo on without changing the tune it should make more power. The tuners are trying thier hardest to get it to make what the customers stocker made. There is obviously something wrong with the turbo, whether it is a production issue or some other issue.
IMO it really sucks that no one so far has reported any real big gain over thier old setup.
Maybe it's called White Rabbit because someone pulled it out of thier hat.
Of course if it's Matrix related then maybe the point is, once you follow the rabbit and swallow the pill you can never go back.
IMO it really sucks that no one so far has reported any real big gain over thier old setup.
Maybe it's called White Rabbit because someone pulled it out of thier hat.
Of course if it's Matrix related then maybe the point is, once you follow the rabbit and swallow the pill you can never go back.
dude... what is wrong with the last numbers that were posted... 360 is pretty damn close to 370. and what you guys aren't even considering is that in the same car on teh same dyno there will be deviations from run to run. there are no REPEATED runs here... NO standard deviations... if you were scientists you'd get executed. and the peanut gallery would burn the hell of 1000 nuclear warheads.
doesn't hold boost... so that's the the turbos fault AUTOMATICALLY? when i get on the dyno and say my stock evo doesn't hold boost... what the does the world of evom tell me? 10 trillion things the turbo only being ONE of them. try the bov... try the stock boost solenoid, try leaks in your pipes, try ANYTHING cuz **** man... the car and the support of the turbo don't like holdin' all that gas in.
and why are you all expecting so ****in' much? it's marginally better than the tme, that's GOOD. *********. if you already paid 1500 for it then you shoulda thot a little harder. i'll come out and say it first cuz no one else has the nuts for it.
this is a drivers turbo. this is a turbo for people that want fast spool, a mean responsive turbo that can kick *** in on tight courses AND hold some ground on high speed courses. this isn't the OH i'll slap on a gt35r and gain 100 hp. no... no no no no NO. this is NOT THAT. so don't look at it like that... yer gonna hurt its feelings.
doesn't hold boost... so that's the the turbos fault AUTOMATICALLY? when i get on the dyno and say my stock evo doesn't hold boost... what the does the world of evom tell me? 10 trillion things the turbo only being ONE of them. try the bov... try the stock boost solenoid, try leaks in your pipes, try ANYTHING cuz **** man... the car and the support of the turbo don't like holdin' all that gas in.
and why are you all expecting so ****in' much? it's marginally better than the tme, that's GOOD. *********. if you already paid 1500 for it then you shoulda thot a little harder. i'll come out and say it first cuz no one else has the nuts for it.
this is a drivers turbo. this is a turbo for people that want fast spool, a mean responsive turbo that can kick *** in on tight courses AND hold some ground on high speed courses. this isn't the OH i'll slap on a gt35r and gain 100 hp. no... no no no no NO. this is NOT THAT. so don't look at it like that... yer gonna hurt its feelings.
Last edited by timzcat; Jul 17, 2005 at 09:15 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 61
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Originally Posted by trinydex
dude... what is wrong with the last numbers that were posted... 360 is pretty damn close to 370. and what you guys aren't even considering is that in the same car on teh same dyno there will be deviations from run to run. there are no REPEATED runs here... NO standard deviations... if you were scientists you'd get executed. and the peanut gallery would burn the hell of 1000 nuclear warheads.
doesn't hold boost... so that's the the turbos fault AUTOMATICALLY? when i get on the dyno and say my stock evo doesn't hold boost... what the does the world of evom tell me? 10 trillion things the turbo only being ONE of them. try the bov... try the stock boost solenoid, try leaks in your pipes, try ANYTHING cuz **** man... the car and the support of the turbo don't like holdin' all that gas in.
and why are you all expecting so ****in' much? it's marginally better than the tme, that's GOOD. if you don't wanna pay 1500 for that... then **** off. if you already paid 1500 for it then you shoulda thot a little harder. i'll come out and say it first cuz no one else has the nuts for it.
this is a drivers turbo. this is a turbo for people that want fast spool, a mean responsive turbo that can kick *** in on tight courses AND hold some ground on high speed courses. this isn't the OH i'll slap on a gt35r and gain 100 hp. no... no no no no NO. this is NOT THAT. so don't look at it like that... yer gonna hurt its feelings.
doesn't hold boost... so that's the the turbos fault AUTOMATICALLY? when i get on the dyno and say my stock evo doesn't hold boost... what the does the world of evom tell me? 10 trillion things the turbo only being ONE of them. try the bov... try the stock boost solenoid, try leaks in your pipes, try ANYTHING cuz **** man... the car and the support of the turbo don't like holdin' all that gas in.
and why are you all expecting so ****in' much? it's marginally better than the tme, that's GOOD. if you don't wanna pay 1500 for that... then **** off. if you already paid 1500 for it then you shoulda thot a little harder. i'll come out and say it first cuz no one else has the nuts for it.
this is a drivers turbo. this is a turbo for people that want fast spool, a mean responsive turbo that can kick *** in on tight courses AND hold some ground on high speed courses. this isn't the OH i'll slap on a gt35r and gain 100 hp. no... no no no no NO. this is NOT THAT. so don't look at it like that... yer gonna hurt its feelings.
Originally Posted by jj_008
I run my GT3076 through the stock boost solenoid w/ no issues. 23psi+ to redline. I don't think a MBC is going to change anything.
Hmmm, very interesting reading.
I'm so glad that I posted all the actual results of our testing of our own 21g as the development went on.
Also very glad I didn't just start selling the turbos because we invested tens of thousands of dollars in getting the wheels and such made.
I don't know what the deal is or why the results are varying so much from what was said it could do.
What I am seeing from most of these runs is about the same results I saw from our 21g wheel. More power but it was marginal, marginal can make you money but will mostly just **** people off and put doubt in other peoples minds.
The heat I took for being slow to release the 21g and the failures I posted along the way now don't seem so meaningful to me.
I am still waiting for another wheel to test, if and when it works I'll be selling them, but as always, I won't sell anything until I am sure it is going to produce what it should.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I'm so glad that I posted all the actual results of our testing of our own 21g as the development went on.
Also very glad I didn't just start selling the turbos because we invested tens of thousands of dollars in getting the wheels and such made.
I don't know what the deal is or why the results are varying so much from what was said it could do.
What I am seeing from most of these runs is about the same results I saw from our 21g wheel. More power but it was marginal, marginal can make you money but will mostly just **** people off and put doubt in other peoples minds.
The heat I took for being slow to release the 21g and the failures I posted along the way now don't seem so meaningful to me.
I am still waiting for another wheel to test, if and when it works I'll be selling them, but as always, I won't sell anything until I am sure it is going to produce what it should.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com