Pounding the White Rabbit
Originally Posted by Cajun Power
LOL, Vishnu came up with the same conclusions... Looks like the Albino Bunny myth is busted. 
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...&postcount=208
Originally Posted by gofaster87
If shaving 1.2 seconds of a lap isnt hard data that the turboo works I dont know what is. You guys need to stop depending on dyno sheets and peak numbers. FP bult an all around performer that so far has been proven on at least a couple cars in roadracing venues. If you want a drag monster or dyno show off vehicle this isnt the turbo for you. This turbo has proven itself by allowing Kent Jordan and the Mueller team 6 or 7 straight wins in his SCCA class. If you want instant cheap horsepower go buy throttle in a bottle.
It really isn't hard data. There could be several factors affecting the track times, not just power alone.
The closest to actual hard data would be to lap the car with the stock turbo and WR at the same day. But even then, any changes in lap times can't be associated with just the turbo swap.
A controlled engine dyno room would be best for actual A-B comparison.
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Originally Posted by David@Vishnu
I agree most know that Im not in CA anymore, this guys not a potential customer of anyone hese trolling for trouble. You however are wanna put an xede on your miata 
Guys like him will do the same thing to every company on here on a long enough time line- Why? Because they have no clue, contribute nothing, and run their mouth.
Guys like him will do the same thing to every company on here on a long enough time line- Why? Because they have no clue, contribute nothing, and run their mouth. Aside from advancing the timing, there really isn't anything short of going FI, that will make noticable gains. (And going FI in a Miata isn't cheap)
Originally Posted by Slick Evo
I am not sure this Turbo can make the power we are looking for.
Sorry Guys, I believe this turbo is a write off. I just don’t see how you can improve the power production of the stock 16G snail with the STOCK compressor housing and having an internal gate. Hell look at the Evo IX turbo, its HUGE compared to the current model and has a VERY light wheel setup.
But you shove a larger wheel in an otherwise untouched compressor housing, I mean lets say it actually DOES flow 700CFM’s, it is doing it through a compressor housing designed for 200 less, so it’s gona get some pressure drop (people are seeing this turbo drop off boost just like the stocker) but then I believe it has more to do with the exhaust side not being able to flow the volume needed to support that power, so you get back pressure and detonation.
I see No evidence from multiple tuners not being able to make ANY noticeable difference, mostly losses, you REALLY cannot just slap a turbo together.
Think about it, which turbo kit makes the most power BY FAR, say on pump gas?
Three I can think of…………..
AMS GT30 Series (3071R or 3076R)
Turbo Trixx Kit (IMHO identical to the 3071R)
RNR 50 Trim kit (LAGGY but works)
Why? They get back to the basics with a high flowing T3 housing; they are externally gated for optimal flow and boost control. They use tubular manifolds to flow the volume needed which most importantly does not back up and cause detonation.
But the BIGGEST reason why these kits flow awesome is that they are either an unmolested Garrett turbo, or tried and true 50 Trim which is basically all you need for pump gas, or an innovative turbo that is soon to be replaced with the Garrett kits due to supply issues. These turbos are not just slapped together, they are built properly and flow tested. Garrett IMHO is the best in terms of quality and flow, KKK is great too. AS far as quality, Mitsubishi builds the most reliable turbos using archaic technology from diesel technology, but man does it work.
You can’t just slap a turbo together; David Buschur has a whole thread dedicated to this on Evo M concerning his 20G problems.
Then you have a mix and match of wheels in a housing not designed to flow it nor an exhaust that can flow the volume, I am not surprised. I don’t see this turbo making any serious gains at all.
Sorry Guys, I believe this turbo is a write off. I just don’t see how you can improve the power production of the stock 16G snail with the STOCK compressor housing and having an internal gate. Hell look at the Evo IX turbo, its HUGE compared to the current model and has a VERY light wheel setup.
But you shove a larger wheel in an otherwise untouched compressor housing, I mean lets say it actually DOES flow 700CFM’s, it is doing it through a compressor housing designed for 200 less, so it’s gona get some pressure drop (people are seeing this turbo drop off boost just like the stocker) but then I believe it has more to do with the exhaust side not being able to flow the volume needed to support that power, so you get back pressure and detonation.
I see No evidence from multiple tuners not being able to make ANY noticeable difference, mostly losses, you REALLY cannot just slap a turbo together.
Think about it, which turbo kit makes the most power BY FAR, say on pump gas?
Three I can think of…………..
AMS GT30 Series (3071R or 3076R)
Turbo Trixx Kit (IMHO identical to the 3071R)
RNR 50 Trim kit (LAGGY but works)
Why? They get back to the basics with a high flowing T3 housing; they are externally gated for optimal flow and boost control. They use tubular manifolds to flow the volume needed which most importantly does not back up and cause detonation.
But the BIGGEST reason why these kits flow awesome is that they are either an unmolested Garrett turbo, or tried and true 50 Trim which is basically all you need for pump gas, or an innovative turbo that is soon to be replaced with the Garrett kits due to supply issues. These turbos are not just slapped together, they are built properly and flow tested. Garrett IMHO is the best in terms of quality and flow, KKK is great too. AS far as quality, Mitsubishi builds the most reliable turbos using archaic technology from diesel technology, but man does it work.
You can’t just slap a turbo together; David Buschur has a whole thread dedicated to this on Evo M concerning his 20G problems.
Then you have a mix and match of wheels in a housing not designed to flow it nor an exhaust that can flow the volume, I am not surprised. I don’t see this turbo making any serious gains at all.
Seriously, a lot of you guys are internet hack artsists. All you look at are dyno charts. A freakin' monkey can do that. This turbo is good for 20 whp more than the stocker with the same spool-up. That's like a set of cams. And just for the record, ask anyone who has a WR on their car. It builds boost much more quickly than stock. But whatever, keep on bashing. It only shows your ignornace as to what this turbo was designed to do.
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Originally Posted by atlvalet
Seriously, a lot of you guys are internet hack artsists. All you look at are dyno charts. A freakin' monkey can do that. This turbo is good for 20 whp more than the stocker with the same spool-up. That's like a set of cams. And just for the record, ask anyone who has a WR on their car. It builds boost much more quickly than stock. But whatever, keep on bashing. It only shows your ignornace as to what this turbo was designed to do.
Hey! I know that car! It's mine.....!! hehehehehehehe.......
atlvalet - you know what? Don't bother trying to convince these guys about the turbo, it seems they've already made up their minds. Enjoy what you've got and be happy in the knowledge that you not only got a great bump in power, but didn't give up ANY driveability in the process.
At some point you have to cut them loose and let them decide for themselves. I did the same thing as you. Tried to explain what the car felt like and the numbers that quite honestly don't reflect the great driveability that this turbo gives, from spool up to top end push..... but no one cared to listen...... screw 'em!
Ya'll have fun waiting for the magical turbo fairy to come knocking at your door. Me, altvalet and quite a few others will be driving the crap out of our cars and having a blast!
Have a good night!
Tony
atlvalet - you know what? Don't bother trying to convince these guys about the turbo, it seems they've already made up their minds. Enjoy what you've got and be happy in the knowledge that you not only got a great bump in power, but didn't give up ANY driveability in the process.
At some point you have to cut them loose and let them decide for themselves. I did the same thing as you. Tried to explain what the car felt like and the numbers that quite honestly don't reflect the great driveability that this turbo gives, from spool up to top end push..... but no one cared to listen...... screw 'em!
Ya'll have fun waiting for the magical turbo fairy to come knocking at your door. Me, altvalet and quite a few others will be driving the crap out of our cars and having a blast!
Have a good night!
Tony
To quote myself from another thread where someone is "complaining" that someone made "...that power with a stock set up..."
What you say makes more sense... in that if more people compared trap times than holy "dyno numbers", we'd all be a lot happier. However, there are many other variables/characteristics that can't be compared just on a drag strip. If that were not the case, RRE wouldn't be cleaning house with these turbos in certain road racing events. You've heard a kudo or two from that crowd giving just "props" to the WR over stock out of respect for the manufacturer. You do not see any of them leading a march down main street touting that the WR is "the SHlT" because in racing, you don't go around handing out your advantage... think about it. You don't see them trading in, or desperately looking for a better turbo do you...
I really wish the dyno warriors could figure out the method to their own madness... unless those "many people" ran on the same dyno as soon as he backed off, that statement is utterly inconclusive. Even then, there are a hand full of variables that would keep even a back to back run on the same dyno from being an "apples to apples" comparison. You'd still be talking about two different cars... look at the variance in bone stock Evos from car to car! Too many (the majority it seems) worship at the alter of "numbers" mistaking them for "results".
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Last edited by Zeus; Aug 1, 2005 at 07:01 AM.
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Originally Posted by Slick Evo
I am not really into dyno charts so much as I am into Trap speed times. This turbo I hope would hit like 118MPH on pump gas, that would be sick.
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Both cars were 03s with cams, exhaust and mbc...... The WR car was on pump with alky and the stock turbo car was on race gas.
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The guys I know are all happy with the WR. Not a complaint from any of them about the performance of the WR. Some have dynoed and some have been to the track and they were all happy. 
I would like to thank Forced Performance for an outstanding job on the White Rabbit turbo. I've been tuning and racing DSM's for 15 years. This turbo spools very quick, adds additional power up top, and will hold the boost psi. at 25 psi. all the way to 6500 rpm where it will fall to 24.5 psi. This is is not a boost spike or a torque spike that alot of misinformed people like to see. That is only good for bench racing or internet bashing. This is real world useable power. The only way some of you will understand is to drive one. Every EVO owner I have taken for a ride was very impressed with it. The Works was involved with the custom flash tune. They were so impressed with the performance and driveability they ordered two of them. They now have a flash tune for them as well. I did buy this car for my wife who drives it everyday. How many cars can go to day care and then rip off 11's on 91 pump. (with Alky/Water). Actually I haven't run A 12 yet. My very first pass was an 11.78. Thanks again for getting it right the first time!
Todd Chiamparino
Todd Chiamparino
Originally Posted by Slick Evo
So Even a trap number is not a good determinant of WHP? Basically in my experience, 230WHP is a stock Number on My local Dyno Jet. With this WHP peopel trap at 101-103 MPH.
On that Same Dyno, 300WHP equals a 107-109 MPH trap, Stock C5 has the same trap number and WHP.
On that Same Dyno, 350WHP equals a 112-116 MPH trap, The Stock Z06 has this same WHP and trap number.
On that Same Dyno, 400-420WHP equals a 118-122MPH trap.
I find these specs to be dead on and when you really cannot compair one dynojet to another on different days, tuners, times, x, y, b and so on. I believe that they are close enought to get an idea of teh power and speed you are looking for and I believe this is what the average turbo buyer is looking for too.
On that Same Dyno, 300WHP equals a 107-109 MPH trap, Stock C5 has the same trap number and WHP.
On that Same Dyno, 350WHP equals a 112-116 MPH trap, The Stock Z06 has this same WHP and trap number.
On that Same Dyno, 400-420WHP equals a 118-122MPH trap.
I find these specs to be dead on and when you really cannot compair one dynojet to another on different days, tuners, times, x, y, b and so on. I believe that they are close enought to get an idea of teh power and speed you are looking for and I believe this is what the average turbo buyer is looking for too.
Keith
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Originally Posted by TurboTodd
I would like to thank Forced Performance for an outstanding job on the White Rabbit turbo. I've been tuning and racing DSM's for 15 years. This turbo spools very quick, adds additional power up top, and will hold the boost psi. at 25 psi. all the way to 6500 rpm where it will fall to 24.5 psi. This is is not a boost spike or a torque spike that alot of misinformed people like to see. That is only good for bench racing or internet bashing. This is real world useable power. The only way some of you will understand is to drive one. Every EVO owner I have taken for a ride was very impressed with it. The Works was involved with the custom flash tune. They were so impressed with the performance and driveability they ordered two of them. They now have a flash tune for them as well. I did buy this car for my wife who drives it everyday. How many cars can go to day care and then rip off 11's on 91 pump. (with Alky/Water). Actually I haven't run A 12 yet. My very first pass was an 11.78. Thanks again for getting it right the first time!
Todd Chiamparino
Todd Chiamparino
I however, have had similar experiences with the WR in friends' cars and they echo your sentiment.