Besides the reverse rotation, is there any difference between the TD05 20G's for the DSM's and the 20G's Buschur is now selling?

 

I am sure Dave will jump in and say how reliable the turbo is. Keep in mind the failure rate I am talking about is with dsm community. And most people who tried it bought the turbo second hand. And most who bought a 20g turbo in the area couldn't keep the power levels running reliably. Getting 20k miles out of a 20g car in the dsm community would almost be unheard of. The starting point for a dsm is an engine that has 100,000-150,000 miles on it. Then slap a 20g on the car and try to make 400hp daily.

I do not gain anything by bashing a particular turbo. I just have not seen this turbo stay together for ****. Is my opinion worth noting? maybe not. I have built maybe 200 dsm trannies, at least 50 4g63 engines, and had my hand in at least 100 or more different 4g63 setups. A little more expereince than your average internet junkie.

 

On another point about 20g. I simply wouldn't waste my time with one on an evo. The evo16 g maxed out is laying down well over 400whp. It is a 42lb/min turbo. The 20g is likely a 44lb/min turbo at best.
Burshur has seen a nice little bump in power on his highly tweaked setup. But what are the results from people who used them on a mildly tweaked setup? Do a search, the results are very dissapointing. Not worth the money.

 

I'm not writing about a turbo that is bought second-hand and installed on a high-mileage engine in questionable condition. I expect owner competence to be a factor in the life of any turbo, 20G or not.

I understand that you have no vested interest in bashing the 20G. I'd still like to hear the particurars of each failure from the owners, rather than rely soley on your claims of other's failures. I've seen you on NABR and mean no disrespect to you, but I still stand behind my original assertion that the DSM 20G was as reliable turbo as any poular turbos available for that platform at the time. Please feel free to have actual owners provide testamony on the other thread I've started about DSM 20G reliablity on this site.

 

so in your opinion, what is the best pump and alky turbo for the evo? of coarse this would exclude the 35r. pretty much looking for the next best choice. so far ive been deciding between the 50trim, 3076r, and the 3040/3065r. appreciate your help!

 

I got sent a link to this and ended up starting on Page 3. My comments will start there.

There were two versions of the 20G from the DSM days. Ours and companies that thought they could make one better (which they didn't

Our 20g's were TD05H based turbos that used a clipped TD05H turbine wheel, TD05H bearing cartridge, 20G compressor wheel and a TD06 compressor housing, we also supplied a ported 7 cm turbine housing with these. Anyone that claims this turbo was un-reliable is just flat our wrong or did not use the turbos we sold over the years. They were virtually bullet proof and were the core of the DSM guys going faster and faster up until around 1998 or so when much larger turbo combinations started to become popular. My personal DSM back in the day ran 11.05 at 127 mph w/me driving it, I sold it to John Shepherd who drove the same combination to 10.72 at 131 mph. Tym had one on his car and ran 10.98 at 125 mph. There are another 10 guys I could name instantly that ran below 11.30's with trap speeds around 124 mph with it too. I cannot think of any failures. I am sure I could call in some favors from these guys to post here and speak for themselves. The 20G that was on my car/John's car is STILL out there and running after all these years. We never even had water hooked to that cartridge for cooling!

The other turbo that was built to "beat" ours used a TD06 turbine wheel in the 7cm housing the compressor wheel was a 20G with a TD06 compressor housing. These turbos were laggy and did not work well. I never saw one run even remotely close to a 10 second pass.

The new 20G's we are doing for the EVO are based on the same design. TD05H reverse scroll turbine wheel and the first ones we were putting into the EVO8 compressor housing which is very close in size to the old TD05H compressor covers. We built a reverse scroll 20G wheel for this. The EVO9 compressor cover is a much better cover but required the use of the EVO9 center cartridge too, still uses the TD05H turbine wheel. We highly belive in clipping the turbine wheels when building these 20G's. The EVO9 cover is big, similar to the TD06 covers of the old days.

Excellent turbos in the past and now.

I agree with someone that said if you want big pull up top then go with a big turbo, that's a given.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Where is your shop located?

 

Frank Mowry says the Extreme 20G can NEVAR lose!

 

Hey Dave, would there be ANY benefit to using an External Wastegate with the 20G? What about incorporating an upgraded Internal gate like the Forge Unit?

 

The Extrememe 20G never went 10's, remind Frank of that

Turbonautic,

The DSM turbos had to use an external wastegate with the TD05H 20G if you didn't it would boost creep horribly. The EVO's have a much improved wastegate design and don't need the external to control boost. We also offer an upgrade wastegate actuator.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

 

with that much displacement, you will spool a 3076 VERY quickly

 

it would spool quick as hell! But then why look at any other turbo other than a 35r if you have the stroker?

 

becuase other smaller turbos would spool even faster with the stroker than without.

heres a good comparison of a gt30R vs gt35R on a 1.8L motor:

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...ghlight=30r+82

 

dont mean to rain on your parade, but imo that is an awful comparison. There is very little to be taken away from those two plots.

-The turbine efficiency of the stage 3 wheel is dismal compared to that of the gt30R turbine wheel
-a PTE T3 Ford style 5 bolt housing is more on center than a garrett 4bolt housing, and will not flow as well
-a 50 trim bb uses a thrust washer/bb setup and is not as strong as a garrett ball bearing with no thrust washer
-the 76mm compressor map has much broader efficency islands than the 50 trim

the reason the 2.4 spooled so fast is that its a 2.4!!! there are so many variables in that test we can not really conclude much from it (ie turbine housing size, cam size, displacement, exhaust setups (maybe one had a cat) etc etc )