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Do I need to run an O2 sensor?

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Old Feb 22, 2006 | 04:31 AM
  #16  
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djh
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From: Columbus, OH
Originally Posted by sonicnofadz
Ummm why is this? The o2 sensor is just outputting an analog voltage that is being fed into the ecu. The ecu then converts the analog signal into a digital one and if it is out of range (too lean too rich) it will throw a code. I don't think it matters if any "heat" is involved at all. A simple voltage divider circuit (using two resistors of a specific resistance) could be used to fool the ecu by dividing the 12 volt battery signal into a lets say .45 volts. Am i wrong in any of my assumptions?
You're assumptions are wrong but the analysis is pretty good! The O2 sensor needs to be kept in a temperature range to work correctly, so it has a built-in heater. The ECU knows this and knows roughly what resistance the heater circuit presents at operating temperature. If the ECU doesn't see that resistance it assumes the sensor is bad.

So you take care of the heater circuit but you still can't just fake a 0.45v output. The ECU expects the sensor's signal to somewhat follow the front sensor's and to go rich in open loop. So again, if the ECU doesn't get the readings it expects it assumes a failure. A low-pass filter, or integrator, on the front sensor signal will do the job electronically. The spark plug anti-fouler (works great if it fits) does basically the same thing mechanically on the rear sensor when there's a high-flow (or no) cat.

Finally, to get the old sensor out, disconnect it, put an old box-end wrench on it and smack it with a hammer.

Dave
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Old Feb 22, 2006 | 05:28 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by sonicnofadz
Ummm why is this? The o2 sensor is just outputting an analog voltage that is being fed into the ecu. The ecu then converts the analog signal into a digital one and if it is out of range (too lean too rich) it will throw a code. I don't think it matters if any "heat" is involved at all. A simple voltage divider circuit (using two resistors of a specific resistance) could be used to fool the ecu by dividing the 12 volt battery signal into a lets say .45 volts. Am i wrong in any of my assumptions?
Good answer Dave.
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Old Feb 22, 2006 | 10:34 AM
  #18  
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So I talked with Buschur and Victor Research by phone today. They all said I need an actual O2 sensor in the exhaust pipe, even with an O2 sensor eliminator in place.

Last edited by bernardo; Feb 22, 2006 at 05:57 PM.
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Old Feb 22, 2006 | 10:37 AM
  #19  
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Yes it needs to stay in place, no it is not feeding the O2v signal to ECU.

I don't understand why you need to bother 4 different companies when you already had your answer.
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Old Feb 22, 2006 | 12:24 PM
  #20  
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Wow thanks for the detailed reply! I did not know the rear o2 signal was suppose to follow the signal from the first o2 sensor, this makes perfect sense now. So it is possible to run without the o2 sensor, you just have to design the appropiate integrator circuit to follow the 1st o2 sensor's signal (to simulate a catalyzed exhaust stream). AWESOME!

Originally Posted by djh
You're assumptions are wrong but the analysis is pretty good! The O2 sensor needs to be kept in a temperature range to work correctly, so it has a built-in heater. The ECU knows this and knows roughly what resistance the heater circuit presents at operating temperature. If the ECU doesn't see that resistance it assumes the sensor is bad.

So you take care of the heater circuit but you still can't just fake a 0.45v output. The ECU expects the sensor's signal to somewhat follow the front sensor's and to go rich in open loop. So again, if the ECU doesn't get the readings it expects it assumes a failure. A low-pass filter, or integrator, on the front sensor signal will do the job electronically. The spark plug anti-fouler (works great if it fits) does basically the same thing mechanically on the rear sensor when there's a high-flow (or no) cat.

Finally, to get the old sensor out, disconnect it, put an old box-end wrench on it and smack it with a hammer.

Dave
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Old Feb 22, 2006 | 04:57 PM
  #21  
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in situations like this, if you must get the sensor out, heat up the surrounding metal with a torch. Just make sure you don't heat the 02 sensor up.
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