moral of the story:

get new rod bolts.

 

I can honestly say after reading through all this that I think someone from this forum brought the attention to the dealer and not a Mits engineer or rep It is sad to see so many people working against you stew. We are suppose to be a group of people who will support each other and work together no matter what the cause, problem, etc...

I wish you the best of luck....

 

Very interesting thread Stew. Don't forget to keep us updated, and i wish you good luck.

 

No one here is working against anyone. We ALL hope Stew walks away from this without paying a cent, but there's a strong possiblity that isn't going to happen. Discussing realistic scenarios isn't counterproductive. It's something we ALL need to consider.

This sort of thing could (and can) happen to any of us, and for many of us, it's not a matter of if, but when. When it does, yes, it hurts. The best policy is always to expect the worst, and hope for the best.

 

Not quite sure why so many want to blame rod bolts. Rod bolt failures are typically tensile from forces due to high rpms. Running lean leads to detonation which results in compressive pounding of sorts transmitted down the rods to the bearings which leads to the bearings getting pulverized which would lead to metal shavings in the oil. High rpms is what kills rod bolts the quickest. Bearings clearances terribly screwed up (most likely from deterioration due to detonation) can also stress to a certain extent the bolts but nowhere near what high rpms can.

Anyone who has ever watched something being machined can see how fast a relatively slow turning part or machining tool can produce metal shavings. Just the same, a bearing going out in a motor commonly spinning 3000-7000 rpms can produce a lot of shavings and contamination in the oil in very little time.

Did the dealer give any approximate costs for them to tear down and provide their diagnosis?

 

If my product is a "improperly programed drug-store grade tuning device" then please explain how I have a lower rate of failure than Vishnu tuning who's customers have had more rod failures than mine includeding a well documented case where the rod failed right on the dyno ?

I wonder if many of the members here are just as tired as I am of the vishnu crew attacking other vendors and stirring the pot ?

 

Glad to hear that. . . .

Maybe you would voice an opinion on why Vishnu has had such a high rate or rod failures in the past

AND why AEM tuned cars seem to have the highest rate of rod bolt failures

FOLLOWED only by 100 % stock evos which fail at almost the same rate and usually within a few thousand miles

 

By no means was I referring to your product or even this situation specifically (as I quickly clarified). I plainly stated that I was speaking rhetorically, and actually, I had one particular, relatively cheap user-tuning tool in mind when I said it.

I hope this clears the air.

 

Would this cheap drug store tool be a bleed pill?

 

My opinion is the factory rod bolts leave a lot to be desired, and any significant increase in power afforded by mods serves only to aggravate the situation. I have seen no statistics for the failure rate in stock EVOs, which ultimately is a determining factor in calculating a basis for a recall and associated manufacturer's liabilities, legal issues, et al.

 

LOL, no, but popping in an improperly sized bleed pill certainly offers the equivalent of an improperly set MBC.

 

that many fine shavings can be generated in a very short time. If you drove 50 miles with the bearing starting to go (either from knock or stretched rod bolts) it would have no problem generating that much debris. I know, I've broken more than a few racing engines and when a bearing spins it seems everything in the world is covered with copper fairy dust.

 

The most stressful condition for rod bolts is simply the transfer of physical stress at TOP DEAD CENTER when the entire piston and rod mass goes from max speed going upwards and stops and then goes down wards

The revs and driving style is the # 1 factor which stresses the rod bolts - not whp level

This is why just as many totally stock engines have failed with rod issues as those which have been modified

 

UPDATE:

Dealer has the head off and the District Rep swung by and took pics. He is sending them out to California this afternoon for inspection, where a decision will be made. These are the things the Service manager noticed and told me on the phone:

- valves in cyls #1,2 are broken (obviously, there were pistons free floating)
- valves in other cyls look to be damaged (not unlikely for timing to get out of whack on a BLOWN MOTOR while it spins down)
- looks to be a slight light grey on the valves themselves
- cylinder walls are scored in all 4, front and back, not side to side (I believe)

One thing I noticed but did not take pictures of, is that the spark plugs look good, no detonation marks. Light grey on both #1 and #2 plugs. I will take pictures of these later today at the dealer.

This is what they mentioned after taking the head off. They did not pull the pan yet, and are not sure if they have to.

..I will be swinging by there tonight at 5:30 to take high resolution photos and post my results.

 

I'd have to agree that making a 2-1 downshift and jerking the revs up to the limiter under a high decelerative load isn't going to be friendly to rod bolts or bearings for that matter.


Advise us of the verdict.