which cams produce most power: HKS 280's VS Comp Cam 280's
Jul 14, 2006, 01:29 PM
#31
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Malibujack,
Wow, that was a very informative post, I learned a lot, thank you very much!
Also, thanks to all the other guys who answered my questions too!
I recon I will be locating the HKS 272's and have those installed. What about a 272/280 combo, how would that work?
Also, I presume it's worth the cost to install the lower IC pipe while I'm at it, anything else I'm missing?
Wow, that was a very informative post, I learned a lot, thank you very much!
Also, thanks to all the other guys who answered my questions too!
I recon I will be locating the HKS 272's and have those installed. What about a 272/280 combo, how would that work?
Also, I presume it's worth the cost to install the lower IC pipe while I'm at it, anything else I'm missing?
Jul 14, 2006, 03:11 PM
#34
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
The LICP from AMS isn't a bad idea...
I don't know of anyone who has tried the 272/280 combo.. Honestly I don't see much value in a staggered combination, I personally find it to be a compromise.
I don't know of anyone who has tried the 272/280 combo.. Honestly I don't see much value in a staggered combination, I personally find it to be a compromise.
Jul 14, 2006, 05:34 PM
#36
I still agree with Revolver's information that the HKS cause the retainers to kiss the seals.
Maybe it doesn't do damage but I wouldn't like that going on.
Only reason I agree is I made the measurements myself and got the same results they did.
As you know I sold my car and the new owner hasn't done a turbo yet but did tune the car for the idle and managed to pass inspection. I think with proper tuning the cams will still make more power then HKS cams on the stock turbo. I am sure someone has numbers out there for this I am just to lazy to look.
Maybe it doesn't do damage but I wouldn't like that going on.
Only reason I agree is I made the measurements myself and got the same results they did.
As you know I sold my car and the new owner hasn't done a turbo yet but did tune the car for the idle and managed to pass inspection. I think with proper tuning the cams will still make more power then HKS cams on the stock turbo. I am sure someone has numbers out there for this I am just to lazy to look.
Jul 14, 2006, 05:42 PM
#37
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Wow, I really don't see the point of having 280's on a stock head/stock turbo light bolt on car either. I'd be interested to see what these same cars would put down with a 264/272 combo. I'm thinking 1 or two ponies off the top but a whole lot more in the middle, with better drivability to boot.
Jul 14, 2006, 06:03 PM
#38
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well, as I stated a post or two back, I'm going with the 272s.
Timzcat,
Are you saying that the HKS 272's have issues or just the 280's? Do the Revolver 272's require valve train work or just the 280's?
Timzcat,
Are you saying that the HKS 272's have issues or just the 280's? Do the Revolver 272's require valve train work or just the 280's?
Jul 14, 2006, 07:29 PM
#39
Originally Posted by timzcat
I still agree with Revolver's information that the HKS cause the retainers to kiss the seals.
Maybe it doesn't do damage but I wouldn't like that going on.
Only reason I agree is I made the measurements myself and got the same results they did.
As you know I sold my car and the new owner hasn't done a turbo yet but did tune the car for the idle and managed to pass inspection. I think with proper tuning the cams will still make more power then HKS cams on the stock turbo. I am sure someone has numbers out there for this I am just to lazy to look.
Maybe it doesn't do damage but I wouldn't like that going on.
Only reason I agree is I made the measurements myself and got the same results they did.
As you know I sold my car and the new owner hasn't done a turbo yet but did tune the car for the idle and managed to pass inspection. I think with proper tuning the cams will still make more power then HKS cams on the stock turbo. I am sure someone has numbers out there for this I am just to lazy to look.
Jul 14, 2006, 09:47 PM
#40
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Come on Timzcat, you started an issue, answer up, inquiring mindz want to know!
BTW, Group S jumped in here and posted but hasn't replied to my questions, whats up with that?
BTW, Group S jumped in here and posted but hasn't replied to my questions, whats up with that?
Jul 15, 2006, 02:15 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
I'm not clear as to why a lot of you guys with stock heads / stock engines are going with 280 camshafts. Don't get me wrong, the 280 camshafts are excellent for drag / race big power cars. I have personally witnessed 25+whp gains on a fully built GT35 car going from HKS 272's to HKS 280's. But there is very little advantage for a car with stock motor and anything less than a GT3037/GT3076 turbo to run 280 camshafts. Because your engine / turbo does not need that kind of airflow in essence you are simply shifting your power curve to the right, lose a little down low gain a little down high (over the 272's). Rather there's a lot of disadvantage such as a fairly lumpy idle.
The 272 camshafts are MUCH better suited for anyone south of 400whp with non-ported heads etcs. Honestly the 280's are just a band-aide solution, if you're doing headwork, valvetrain, etc. you really should consider a higher lift camshaft with supporting valvetrain. Stock valvetrain & 280 camshafts is not a great combination. I'd personally just save your money, get the Helix 272's, and increase your cam overlap by a few degrees, retune, you'll have the same effect as 280's (trading midrange for top-end). That said if you really want HKS 280's, we have them in stock.
Cheers,
Gary
Gruppe-S
The 272 camshafts are MUCH better suited for anyone south of 400whp with non-ported heads etcs. Honestly the 280's are just a band-aide solution, if you're doing headwork, valvetrain, etc. you really should consider a higher lift camshaft with supporting valvetrain. Stock valvetrain & 280 camshafts is not a great combination. I'd personally just save your money, get the Helix 272's, and increase your cam overlap by a few degrees, retune, you'll have the same effect as 280's (trading midrange for top-end). That said if you really want HKS 280's, we have them in stock.
Cheers,
Gary
Gruppe-S
Jul 15, 2006, 02:32 AM
#43
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sgt blamo, the most important feature on cams is LIFT!!!! cams with lift make the most power but people 1/2ass their cam installs so they either don't make as much as they thought or they end up with the dreded "lifter tick". if u want a 280 cam, Tomei is the ONLY choice as they have 11.8mm of lift. it is HIGHLY recommended that u build the head to run a cam this aggressive as these cams are designed for a 6-10K rpm range. the only cams more aggressive than those are the Piper Drag Race cams. 290 duration with 12mm lift. u will need their valve springs & need to switch to mechanical lifters to run those.
these r the supporting mods needed for a cam install to be done correctly & to make the MOST power:
built head (preferrably Cosworth)
head bolts (ARP, JUN)
pistons (Omega or Tomei)
rods/rod bolts (Carrillo)
head gasket (Cometic)
timing belt (kevlar-Greddy, Tomei)
valve springs (JUN)
valve guides (JUN)
Ti retainers (JUN)
cam gears (Tomei, HKS, JUN)
intake manifold (HKS Kansai Service, JUN)
addl fuel mods to support extra flow
reflash w/at least 4hrs of undisturbed dyno time (or MoTeC ECU-preferred)
depending on the tuner, expect anywhere from 80-125WHP increase from the above setup...
these r the supporting mods needed for a cam install to be done correctly & to make the MOST power:
built head (preferrably Cosworth)
head bolts (ARP, JUN)
pistons (Omega or Tomei)
rods/rod bolts (Carrillo)
head gasket (Cometic)
timing belt (kevlar-Greddy, Tomei)
valve springs (JUN)
valve guides (JUN)
Ti retainers (JUN)
cam gears (Tomei, HKS, JUN)
intake manifold (HKS Kansai Service, JUN)
addl fuel mods to support extra flow
reflash w/at least 4hrs of undisturbed dyno time (or MoTeC ECU-preferred)
depending on the tuner, expect anywhere from 80-125WHP increase from the above setup...
Jul 15, 2006, 07:05 AM
#44
One cannot tell diddly squat about a cam from "280", especially when Comp Cams "280s" do NOT have 280 deg of advertised duration anyway. Even so, comparing a "280" from one manufacturer to a "280" from another manufacturer is like comparing apples and tomatoes.
Lots of confusing information in this thread. In short, if one cannot interpret a cam card, he won't be able to intelligently discuss cam differences. In short, there are distinct differences between Comp Cams and HKS cam. Comp Cams have very different duration, different ramp shapes, different lift, and different lobe centerlines. The ONLY way to compare the actual performance of the two is with a single car, tuner, and cam gears.
What I CAN tell you however as that as compared to HKS 280s (all installed straight up), Comp Cams 280s will present themselves as being slightly advanced, and with perhaps a choppier idle and peaker midrange. Give me a set of cam gears and I can change that entirely . . . if I choose to do so.
Lots of confusing information in this thread. In short, if one cannot interpret a cam card, he won't be able to intelligently discuss cam differences. In short, there are distinct differences between Comp Cams and HKS cam. Comp Cams have very different duration, different ramp shapes, different lift, and different lobe centerlines. The ONLY way to compare the actual performance of the two is with a single car, tuner, and cam gears.
What I CAN tell you however as that as compared to HKS 280s (all installed straight up), Comp Cams 280s will present themselves as being slightly advanced, and with perhaps a choppier idle and peaker midrange. Give me a set of cam gears and I can change that entirely . . . if I choose to do so.
Jul 15, 2006, 07:32 AM
#45
Going back to why people chose 280s to begin with. I mainly chose to buy the HKS 280s since I know further down the road I'd have a decent set of cams in my car instead of going the other way around where I have 264's or 272's and then regret not going a step above. It's better to over do some things like a Race FMIC on a stock turbo w/ mainly bolt ons wouldn't do much but hey atleast you are ready for bigger things to come.
Believe me I think from the results passed down here I really like the Revolver cams for its versatility and price. But the kicker comes in when you need alot of supporting mods just to go along with the cams.
Believe me I think from the results passed down here I really like the Revolver cams for its versatility and price. But the kicker comes in when you need alot of supporting mods just to go along with the cams.