TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

Um, we sell HKS cams for $560 shipped for existing inventory and $640 for the new HKS pricing units.

joeymia

iTrader: (6)

My car makes great power with the HKS 280's. Search the board and all you see is people making posts about how happy they are with 280's and the stock turbo. I always see a ton of people say "i was told hks 280's suck on stock turbo", but I have yet to see a stock turbo owner who has hks 280's that is upset?!

Gruppe-S

iTrader: (206)

HKS 280's don't suck - they are a cost effective solution for the big turbo guys that aren't interested in ponying up for valvetrain / headwork, and are great for Drag-race applications. They make power, I have personally seen 25whp gains. That said they are not so good for the stock / medium sized turbo and track guys because:

1. They idle poorly (flame suit on hehe)
2. They are cast and heavy (0.4lbs each lighter than Helix 272's is no joke)
3. Decrease mid range power band for the small / medium sized turbos
4. Rockwell hardness lower than most billet cams

That's why I usually make two recommendations.

1. Stock or 20G turbo guy - Helix 272's (lighter, stronger, better idle, better power band)
2. Big turbo guy - Revolver or other HIGHER LIFT cams + valvetrain + ported heads (more expensive but WAY more power).

In my opinion the HKS don't make sense for 95% of customers, but if you have a GT30R+, don't want to spend money on headwork, and only drag race the car, then the HKS 280's are great cams are for you.

BTW the 25whp gain I saw with the 280's (this is over 264's) was on a fully ported head with valvetrain & a GT35R 1.06 A/R car.

Cheers,

Gary
Gruppe-S

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Not with a twist of cam gears they don't. I whipped out some 340 ft/lbs on a Dyno Dynamics with a regular TME (25 psi) and HKS 280s on a stock block and head, and that ain't too shabby.

In general, for the 'I have an SAFC and I want big cams' crowd however, you're generally correct.

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

We are in the age of Ecuflashing. Idle is great on my car and any other 280 car we have tuned.

Funny you mentioned SAFC + cams crowd Ted.

13 months ago we did this with HKS 280 280 with stock MAF, manual boost controller and meth, no racefuel.

Nicolas

iTrader: (1)

After i installed them along with cam gears, the car after 3500rpm goes like crazy up to 7000rpm where the stock turbo doesnt seem to be able to produce any more power...


However, the idle is very poor, no matter what people say. Even for street racing, they are amazing and after 3500rpm produce a lot of power...Under that rpm....Who really cares?


No dyno, no nothing. All comparisons were made through street racing with various cars and among them EVO's with either 272/272 or 264/264...No comparison with other brands though...

Agent-Smith

That's it. I am going to spend time tommorow night and post a freaking how to on tuning idle with cams.

Tired of the lies being spread.

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

You find it interesting that the vendors with camshaft product lines that do not have 280 duration available are the ones that claim poor idle and "overkill" over the durations that they do have in stock?

EFIxMR

iTrader: (10)

FWIW, I had straight 280's and did not like them. Getting them to idle smoothly wasn't a problem on aem. it just seemed that there was a loss in power in the low end. I even timed my cam gears to 2+, 0 per Ted B and didnt get the results I wanted. additionally, at idle the smell of raw fuel at the stop light was strong.

My other buddy who was also an early adopter of the 280's said he noticed the same characteristics, and ended up taking out his 280's and going back to his 264in 272ex combo which he loved.

I switched to a 272 intake cam and kept the 280 exhaust cam, and instantly my low end was improved. the raw gas smell was a lot less and the motor just ran better in general.

Now I'm running cosworth high lift m2 camshafts in my car, and these are the best cams yet. With my stock turbo I was able to break 300 wtq on Gruppe-S' dyno on pump gas, which from my understanding is something few if any have done. They had great low end with my stock turbo, and when I switched to a 35R they had great top end making 375 whp on pump fuel, which is also something extremely rare.

These cams are on the difficult side to tune as the cam gear settings differ from settings proven on the HKS cams. From my understanding compared to an HKS the duration is around 278 intake 275 exhaust with an 11.0 lift.

These cams idle great when properly timed with the appropriate af and timing applied. However, the exhaust fumes are more potent than the 272 in 280 ex combo, but not as bad as 280's straight.

IMHO, the best profile for a stock turbo'd car daily driver is the 272 straight. I think the drivability you give up for minimal gains (on pump atleast) isn't worth the headache.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

I have 280 cams, GT35r turbo, 1000cc injectors.. The three classic troublesome mods that can cause poor idle.. I posted a video of my car idling with the stock turbo and 280 cams, and it idled a bit lopey (as cams with overlap do) but the quality was rock solid and stable.. The trick to getting them to work right is in balancing increased idle speed, with adding a bit of fuel to compensate for the low vacuum and lean condition, and increasing the timing a small amount to increase exhaust volume.. This will give you a nearly perfect idle, and you shouldn't be getting raw fuel smell if the ECU is correctly running in closed loop.. On the AEM its more difficult, but you can run O2 feedback to maintain a 14.7 ratio and get similar results.. My Carburetor equipped Malibu has the same problem at idle, since its hard to perfectly meter fuel at idle without O2 feedback..

I really don't understand where some of the "poor idle" stuff comes from, I did a set of 272 cams straight up for a friend, and his car with the stock MAF idled rock solid after some minor adjustment in the BISS..

I have come to the conclusion that there are just alot of half-hearted attempts at doing things right, and too much bad info out there on how to do it. But I have sucessfully gotten good idle with cams using only a reflash, a Utec, an ECU+, and even an S-AFC.. In some cases the piggybacks were more difficult to get a good idle, which is understandable because of the way you need to set them up to compensate for the low engine vacuum and hence the lean condition at idle.

Whoever posts the tuning for idle thread, send me the link when you do post it, start a new thread I'll add my data to it..


FWIW I do agree that 280's are too big for the stock Turbo.. They hurt the midrange a bit where the stock turbo shines most.. I have to try the +2/0 timing when I get the car on the dyno and start tuning it with all my stuff finally installed.

Sgt Blamo

iTrader: (1)

So to conclude our discussion, the best TQ & HP to be gained on a lightly modded Evo (see my original list of mods on page one) would be a straight up 10.8 lift, 272 duration cam , aka:HKS or Buddy Club 272's?! Seems like the split profile is really only benificial for idle, not torque, am I correct? I'm hoping to make as close to 350-365 TQ & HP as possible with just the cams, o2& wrapped header combo, LICP & Dynoflash re-tune.

Sgt Blamo

iTrader: (1)

EFIxMR,
How would you compare the 272/280 to a straight 272 combo? Did you get the best of both worlds,ie. midrange and top end? I've been thnking of that combo. Please elaborate.

Gruppe-S

iTrader: (206)

272's the way to go. HKS and Buddy Clubs are good cast cams. I also urge you to consider the Helix ones:

1. Lighter
2. Billet
3. Higher rockwell hardness
4. Cheaper (on sale for $399, take that extra $200 and buy a downpipe or something!)

Cheers,

Gary
Gruppe-S

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

280 280 with camgears will get you maximum torque and horsepower, period.

donmeca2020

iTrader: (2)

that would be overtkill on the motor, with stock turbo. anyways i also decided on the HKS 272s they should be here friday or saturday. the following week they should be going in. i cant wait.